23-06-2003 19:28									#1
	SCOTUS Upholds UMs AA Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

*and chegitz wonders if he used the most abreviations in one title ever.

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Court Upholds Mich. Affirmative Action


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Jun 23, 10:20 AM (ET)

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court on Monday upheld a university law school admissions policy that gives minorities an edge, ruling that race can be one of many factors that colleges consider when selecting their students.

The ruling in the law-school case preserves the concept of affirmative action for minorities who might otherwise be underrepresented on top campuses, but makes clear that racial preferences must be used sparingly.

The 5-4 ruling endorsed a program at the University of Michigan law school meant to ensure a "critical mass" of minorities on campus. The program is not an illegal quota, the high court said.

A companion ruling testing the constitutionality of another, more overtly preferential affirmative action program for minority applicants was also expected Monday.

	23-06-2003 19:33									#2
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And then they decided to confuse everyone by striking down the undergrad portion of the case.

	23-06-2003 19:34									#3
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So the Supreme Court has decided that racism is legal after all. Wonderful.

	23-06-2003 19:37									#4
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Che, you do realize this allows them to deny admission based on race as well...

	23-06-2003 19:37									#5
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I am surprised. If they'd wanted the appellate court's ruling to be the law of the land, there was no need for the Supremes to review it. I'll be looking forward the reading the ruling.

	23-06-2003 19:38									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler I am surprised. If they'd wanted the appellate court's ruling to be the law of the land, there was no need for the Supremes to review it.

They probably wanted to nationalize it.

	23-06-2003 19:54									#7
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June 23, 2003 | WASHINGTON (AP) -- In two split decisions, the Supreme Court on Monday ruled that minority applicants may be given an edge when applying for admissions to universities, but limited how much a factor race can play in the selection of students.

The high court struck down a point system used by the University of Michigan, but did not go as far as opponents of affirmative action had wanted. The court approved a separate program used at the University of Michigan law school that gives race less prominence in the admissions decision-making process.

The court divided in both cases. It upheld the law school program that sought a "critical mass" of minorities by a 5-4 vote, with Justice Sandra Day O'Connor siding with the court's more liberal justices to decide the case.

The court split 6-3 in finding the undergraduate program unconstitutional. Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist wrote the majority opinion in the undergraduate case, joined by O'Connor and Justices Antonin Scalia, Anthony M. Kennedy, Clarence Thomas and Stephen Breyer.

Justices John Paul Stevens, David Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg dissented.

Michigan's undergraduate admissions structure is tantamount to a quota, the majority in that case concluded. While it set no fixed target for the number of minority students who should get in, the point-based evaluation system gave minority applicants a 20-point boost.

Government has a compelling interest in promoting racial diversity on campus, but the undergraduate school's admissions policy is not the way to get there, the court majority said.

The ruling affects tax-supported schools, and by extension private schools and other institutions, that have looked for ways to boost minority enrollment without violating the Constitution's guarantee against discrimination.

The University of Michigan cases are the most significant test of affirmative action to reach the court in a generation. At issue was whether racial preference programs unconstitutionally discriminate against white students.

	23-06-2003 19:55									#8
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So what the hell does this decision mean?

	23-06-2003 19:57									#9
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quote: The court divided in both cases. It upheld the law school program that sought a "critical mass" of minorities by a 5-4 vote, with Justice Sandra Day O'Connor siding with the court's more liberal justices to decide the case.

I still don't understand how that's not a quota. The only difference is they decide on a semester-by-semester basis how many minorities to accept to reach critical mass.

	23-06-2003 19:57									#10
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ITYTTHTMA.

	23-06-2003 19:58									#11
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So what the hell does this decision mean?

That they felt like restating Bakke rather than clearing up the waters they muddied earlier.

	23-06-2003 19:59									#12
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So what the hell does this decision mean?

That race diversity is a compelling interest, but that the schools must find a way to meet it without grealty "disadvanteging" others.

	23-06-2003 20:22									#13
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I'm disappointed. I was really hoping for an end to AA. The racists win.

	23-06-2003 20:23									#14
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*must hold tounge when Cali makes a comment about someone being a racist........must do it...m..u..s..t..

	23-06-2003 20:27									#15
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I dream of a day when a man will be judged by the content of his character and not the color of his skin

	23-06-2003 20:28									#16
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Tell that to young black men driving a Benz.

	23-06-2003 20:37									#17
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Seriously. The problem is that there is a need to bring more educational equality. Should this be done by giving a position at a university to a less qualified individual? I believe that the solution is to bring the secondary educational system into equality and produce more qualified candidates from minority areas.

	23-06-2003 20:39									#18
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As I've pointed out previously, all it will take to end AA in these situations is for everyone to either not answer the race questions on applications or for everyone to answer black. There is no litmus test for 'blackness'.

I notice that the value given to being black, and therefore underprivileged, was somehow omitted from Che's cut and paste. So lets put things in perspective:

'Michigan's undergraduate school used a 150-point index to screen applicants. The 20 points awarded to minorities was more than the school awarded for some measures of academic excellence, writing ability or leadership skills. Outstanding athletes also got 20 points, as did impoverished applicants.'

	23-06-2003 20:42									#19
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I notice that the value given to being black, and therefore underprivileged, was somehow omitted from Che's cut and paste. So lets put things in perspective:

It wasn't in my article. Also, you can only get one of those sets of points, so if you're a poor, Black athelete, you still only get 20 points.

	23-06-2003 20:42									#20
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH As I've pointed out previously, all it will take to end AA in these situations is for everyone to either not answer the race questions on applications or for everyone to answer black. There is no litmus test for 'blackness'. I notice that the value given to being black, and therefore underprivileged, was somehow omitted from Che's cut and paste. So lets put things in perspective: 'Michigan's undergraduate school used a 150-point index to screen applicants. The 20 points awarded to minorities was more than the school awarded for some measures of academic excellence, writing ability or leadership skills. Outstanding athletes also got 20 points, as did impoverished applicants.'

So if I'm an impoverished black athelete who can't write or lead then I'm in?

	23-06-2003 20:47									#21
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You have good writing skills Che.
How come you have such terrible titling skills then ?

	23-06-2003 20:52									#22
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 Seriously. The problem is that there is a need to bring more educational equality. Should this be done by giving a position at a university to a less qualified individual? I believe that the solution is to bring the secondary educational system into equality and produce more qualified candidates from minority areas.

Well, since people are not serious about fixing the root problem (greater poverty rates among minorities and worse schools in the primary and secondary levels), half solutions like AA are what's left. I can;t feel sorry for a society that will not address the issue and then gripes at the half-assed solution is decides to use.

Why should athletes of any race get a greater chance to go in? Football is not in the curriculum. And why should schools strive for geographoic diversity? The NE creates by far the greatest pool of qualified university applicants (for all schools east of the mississippi), so why should someone from Cali. have an easier time getting into an eastern school simply becuase they are from Cali? There are a dozne ways in which univerisites descriminate among applicants.

	23-06-2003 21:00									#23
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, since people are not serious about fixing the root problem (greater poverty rates among minorities and worse schools in the primary and secondary levels), half solutions like AA are what's left. I can;t feel sorry for a society that will not address the issue and then gripes at the half-assed solution is decides to use.

How do you propose society fix the problem? Throwing money at it obviously doesn't work. What makes you think it's the fault of society anyway? I place the blame on an inferior culture within minority communities. The problem with you leftists is you think you can solve everything through govt control. Human beings are not infinitely malleable.

	23-06-2003 21:08									#24
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It wasn't in my article

Apologies then. The point remains that SCOTUS threw out the undergraduate case by 6-3 because 20 points was too much benefit just for checking a box saying you're black.

	23-06-2003 21:10									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia How do you propose society fix the problem? Throwing money at it obviously doesn't work. What makes you think it's the fault of society anyway? I place the blame on an inferior culture within minority communities. The problem with you leftists is you think you can solve everything through govt control. Human beings are not infinitely malleable.

While I definately agree that cultural differences contribute to the problem, it would be hard to say that the government has "thrown money" at many impoverished school districts. BTW, I doubt anyone would ever call me a leftist. Equality in educational funding is simply not present.

	23-06-2003 21:11									#26
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Ge Pap:

How the heck would you go about fixing the problem of greater poverty levels for minorities while preserving a free market economy?

Massive public works? Reparations? Just give them all a big 'Cheque for Not Being White' every year? Free Education?

What you want is for minorities to be making an equal amount because THEY are making it, not because it's being 'evened up' by a government program.

Free education sounds good in theory, but it would simply drive the advantaged into private schools, like the situation with High Schools in southern states, IMO.

I don't think anyone knows how to fix it. Interraccial marriage is a good trend though. If everyone is 'mulatto' then race/minority status is no longer a problem.


In order to achieve racial harmony Americans have got to have lots of sex with each other, and they've got keep doing it, for a long time.



Once everyone is family= no advantaged class, no privledged cultural/educational/economic network for 'whites' (or some whites like I've seen on TV; I'm still waiting to get my white priveledge cheque in the mail)

	23-06-2003 21:16									#27
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How about stripping racial considerations from AA, and making entirely economy-based? No points for being black, NA, etc., but more points if you're from an impoverished family than if you're from a middle-class home. Since many minorities are economically disadvantaged, it'll include them, plus all the poor white kids that need a leg up as well.

I concur with PLATO1003 that primary and secondary education institutions need to be as equal as possible (total equity is probably impossible). When all kids receive the same basic educational backgrounds, they can compete for admissions on a more even level. Then the best students, as opposed to the most advantaged or disadvantaged, will be admitted (as it should be).

	23-06-2003 21:20									#28
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 While I definately agree that cultural differences contribute to the problem, it would be hard to say that the government has "thrown money" at many impoverished school districts. BTW, I doubt anyone would ever call me a leftist. Equality in educational funding is simply not present.

I wasn't calling you a leftist. Look back and see who I quoted in my post.

	23-06-2003 21:23									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I wasn't calling you a leftist. Look back and see who I quoted in my post.

Gotcha. I do, however, find myself in the unusual position of somewhat agreeing with GePap.

	23-06-2003 21:35									#30
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Damn! I just lost my last post!