03-08-2003 23:22									#61
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Great thread

I actually found the Babs to be better than the Greeks in my OCC game, but that's just player preference (not a big greek fan despite the nice hoplite).

Getting a space ship victory is much harder with the AU mod, but it is hectic and exciting. I netted a cultural victory in the AU 302 game on emperor but kept playing until launch which beat the Romans only by a few turns.

I encourage people to try this type of game at least once, if you can win with one city, imagine what you can do with more than one!

	04-08-2003 00:01									#62
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To see what the settings were, try to load the game in question and then start a new game. It seems to take the settings from the last game. At least that is what it looks like to me. When I download a game and then start a new one, I often discover I am not using the settings I want.

	04-08-2003 00:30									#63
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Thanks Master Zen,

I like the Babs, too. And the Persians. Using the Pyarmids as a lead item to the Great Library is a real kick when it works. With the Babs, having cheap Libraries/Universities *and* Temples/Cathedrals is a real luxury.

I do better with the Greeks, however, for two reasons:

1) Starting with Alphabet gives you a big jump on Literature.

2) Playing the Greeks means an almost(?) guaranteed Golden Age when you build the Great Library.

quote: Getting a space ship victory is much harder with the AU mod, but it is hectic and exciting. I netted a cultural victory in the AU 302 game on emperor but kept playing until launch which beat the Romans only by a few turns.

Have you ever tried OCC using the AU Mod without an editted map? I really like the AU Mod and think it would bring a whole new set of dynamics to OCC. The Modern Age would be more interesting and exciting plus you could actually have a size 21+ city.

I'm thinking of an AU-OCC Mod. If I were to do so, I would allow the Colossus to be built anywhere and make the Capital not require an Aqueduct. I might also bump the appearance ratios of Luxuries. We'll see...

quote: I encourage people to try this type of game at least once, if you can win with one city, imagine what you can do with more than one!

I agree! If you like the Builder strategy, hone your skills playing OCC.

Thanks for the post, Master Zen. I saw MZO the other day and it looks like a good alternative to 'Poly and CFC. Good job!

- TT

	04-08-2003 01:46									#64
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by ToeTruck Have you ever tried OCC using the AU Mod without an editted map? I really like the AU Mod and think it would bring a whole new set of dynamics to OCC. The Modern Age would be more interesting and exciting plus you could actually have a size 21+ city.

Actually AU 302 was the only time I ever played OCC. I don't really have much time to play Civ these days, mostly just PBEMs and the demo games.

quote: I'm thinking of an AU-OCC Mod. If I were to do so, I would allow the Colossus to be built anywhere and make the Capital not require an Aqueduct. I might also bump the appearance ratios of Luxuries. We'll see...

The Colossus is definitely a must-build for a successful OCC. That's why it surprised me why some people chose not to build their city on the coast on AU 302. However I have to say that AU 302 was very favorable to the player as far as OCC cities go, you kinda have to get lucky on random maps to play a good OCC. As for giving the capital an aqueduct, I am almost sure that isn't possible with the editor. You should double-check that.

quote: Thanks for the post, Master Zen. I saw MZO the other day and it looks like a good alternative to 'Poly and CFC. Good job! - TT

Thanks for the props!

However, I hope it doesn't become an alternative too soon or else I'll need to buy more bandwidth...

	04-08-2003 02:01									#65
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: As for giving the capital an aqueduct, I am almost sure that isn't possible with the editor. You should double-check that.

Well...you don't actually give the Capital an Aqueduct, but the editor does allow any improvement or Wonder to: "Allow City Size Level 2".

I've also toyed with the next option in the list: "Allows for City Size Level 3". That would completely remove the need for a Hospital. Whoa!

My goal with an OCC Mod, however, would be to make more starting positions palatable, not to make the game as a whole that much different or that much easier. Going overboard with the editor kind of takes away the challenge of OCC, right? Making a good OCC mod is a bit of a challenge.

If you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks.

- TT

	04-08-2003 04:59									#66
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quote: Originally posted by ToeTruck Thanks Master Zen, I like the Babs, too. And the Persians. Using the Pyarmids as a lead item to the Great Library is a real kick when it works. With the Babs, having cheap Libraries/Universities *and* Temples/Cathedrals is a real luxury. I do better with the Greeks, however, for two reasons: 1) Starting with Alphabet gives you a big jump on Literature. 2) Playing the Greeks means an almost(?) guaranteed Golden Age when you build the Great Library. Have you ever tried OCC using the AU Mod without an editted map? I really like the AU Mod and think it would bring a whole new set of dynamics to OCC. The Modern Age would be more interesting and exciting plus you could actually have a size 21+ city. I'm thinking of an AU-OCC Mod. If I were to do so, I would allow the Colossus to be built anywhere and make the Capital not require an Aqueduct. I might also bump the appearance ratios of Luxuries. We'll see... I agree! If you like the Builder strategy, hone your skills playing OCC. Thanks for the post, Master Zen. I saw MZO the other day and it looks like a good alternative to 'Poly and CFC. Good job! - TT

hi ,

go and take a look at civfanatics , the GOTM has the greeks , and its a game that rocks , .....

have a nice day

	20-08-2003 17:13									#67
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When playing a (builder) OCC, I prefer
the industrious and the religious trait, since
I want to have a cultural victory.
Religious is very important: during anarchy
you produce nothing and you don't get culture
during those turns.
You start with burial and you build a temple very fast
which gives a lot of early culture.
I do not need scientific since I cash rush libraries etc.
anyway.
I do not want commercial since it mainly reduces
corruption which I do not have.
But industrious is very nice, since you can improve
all squares fast and because of the number of
bonus shields.
So I used Egypt on a small map and got a cultural victory. (emperor, pangaia, max numb opp).
After this one I used the iroquis and got some leaders
with my Mounted Warriors, which made life a lot easier.
(just raze all cities)

	10-10-2003 16:36									#68
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Actually OCC Deity Level is easier to play than a normal Deity game imho. Why. In a standard Deity game you have to WORK WORK WORK to get to a reasonable size,maybe even te largest but then ,for me at least, problems occur. Because of my hard work I'm in the power lead (everybody is annoyed) and NOBODY wants to trade any luxuries to me even for high prices (everyone gets furious) this forces me to go on all out war in most cases to get the luxuries and/or resources.This way I have to WORK even harder to keep my head above water. You get your butt handed to you when the ai bands together.....

In OCC, besides the fact imho it's a fun and quick way to plat Civ3, trading is soooo much easier.somehow the AI trades with you much more easily when you're small.

Last edited by Tolwyn on 10-10-2003 at 17:44

	25-03-2004 06:42									#69
	What am i doing wrong? Suffering from ads?

Alright, i have a couple questions:

Firstly, you mention developing all 20 tiles. This isn't possible with a coastal city. Or am i missing something?

Another, what do you think the problem is if in Industrial i am about 7 techs behind everyone else? I start research after Great Library, and trade when i can...but it just deosn't cut it. And people periodically get annoyed for no reason. Noone will sell me steam power for less than 1k and after that noone will budge with coal and iron.

I wasn't able to obtain most of the techs near as fast as you said. And the AI get Theroy of Evol. and Newtons University...

Maybe i'm just a noob... but it seems the AI has me beat... i do love that strategy though

Thanks

	25-03-2004 12:20									#70
	Remove this text

Are you playing C3C? If so things are a bit different. One tactic to try is to steal the tech, instead of trade.

In any event you need to be on very good terms with the AI.

	25-03-2004 16:43									#71
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I'm playing civ3 "gold edition" but if it makes it ezer, just call it civ3. Anyway, the only way of stealing the techs i know is by spy/and by beating the crap outta them and putting it in peace treaty. If i try i spy i ALWAYS fail and then my big beafy neighbors slaughter me. But what i don't get is: what do i do if the AI won't sell me techs, i try to research, but fall far behind.


thanks




EDIT: i'm also still wondering bout the coast and developing 20 tiles thing.

Last edited by razzor7 on 25-03-2004 at 17:01

	25-03-2004 22:32									#72
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You don't need a spy to steal. It can be done before you get the tech for spies. It requires only that you pile up cash to pay for the attempts. You want to use the safe method as if you get caught, it is game over. Well you could have a good enough relation to not have war declared, but not likely.

I am not sure what you mean by the 20 tiles thing as I have not reread this thread. If you have a straight coastal line, I would expect 8 tiles in coastal or sea tiles. One city center and 12 other land tiles. So 20 tiles and the city center, once culture has expanded.

You get a harbor to boost the output of the 8 coastal tiles. You can have additional tiles on land that can come under your culture and allow resources and lux to be available.

	25-03-2004 22:34									#73
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...30&pagenumber=4

Here is a thread where Dom use the steal tactic.

	26-03-2004 03:15									#74
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Thanks, that cleared up alot

One last thing: Is it just me or do only like 1 in 20 places start on/near the coast AND next to a river?


thanks

	26-03-2004 06:42									#75
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Never checked it out, but they claim they have increased the chances for seafaring civs. I would not be surprised if it was high for others.

	26-03-2004 07:12									#76
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*eye twitch* *eye twitch* AHHHH! It's impossible! i'm in the Middle Ages and the others are in Industrial!!! I trade, I buy, I CAN'T DO IT!!!! oN top of that, the stinkin' French get NEWTONS UNIVERSITY!!!!!!!! what am i doing wrong?!?!?!?! I got an AWESOME start location: One forest with game, the res bonuos/regulor grassland.

this seems impossible... maybe i'm missong something?


thanks

	26-03-2004 12:14									#77
	Got spare money?

Do you have any lux and any extra resources? It seems to be largely a function of staing on good terms with the AI and making good trades. That is if you have the required start location.

There are several OCC threads here, but I am not sure if any are for C3C. The extra ancient wonders will change things, especially since two yields free units.

Are you a religious civ going for a culture win? I know Dom failed to get Newtons, but won anyway via stealing tech.

	26-03-2004 15:33									#78
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quote: Originally posted by razzor7 *eye twitch* *eye twitch* AHHHH! It's impossible! i'm in the Middle Ages and the others are in Industrial!!! I trade, I buy, I CAN'T DO IT!!!! oN top of that, the stinkin' French get NEWTONS UNIVERSITY!!!!!!!! what am i doing wrong?!?!?!?! I got an AWESOME start location: One forest with game, the res bonuos/regulor grassland.

Heh. My eyes still twitch whenever I play. It's pretty scaring trying to win with only one city.

quote: [SIZE=1] this seems impossible... maybe i'm missong something?

I don't know if you're missing anything except maybe playing a few times. I know that I played dozens and dozens of games before I got the feel for how the game flows.

Knowing when to start pre-building a Wonder is one of the trickiest things to get a feel for. For example, the early Middle Ages is full of Wonders, but using one of them to pre-build Copes is wrought with peril. It's very easy for one of your rivals to "accidentally" build Copes as Sistine's and Leo's get finished. That's one of the reasons it's so important to trade/give away Invention and Theology. You *want* someone else to build them quickly so there aren't a pile of shields hanging out in some AI's city.

My overall advice is play a bunch of games and consider reloading failed games to see if there might have been a better path to victory. You learn a bunch by experimenting like that. I know that I have often gotten a game to a certain point and then "practiced" from there by playing "what ifs". You learn a lot and get much better very quickly.

Good luck.

- TT

	26-03-2004 15:37									#79
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 There are several OCC threads here, but I am not sure if any are for C3C. The extra ancient wonders will change things, especially since two yields free units.

Yeah, I think OCC is even better with C3C. The extra Wonders open up all kinds of possibilities (and quite a few challenges). For instance, The Temple of Artemis takes a *lot* of shields to build. I've encountered a number of times when one of my rivals "accidentally" builds the GL just because someone else built ToA. Or worse, someone builds ToA then another rivals requires tribute of Literature (talk about salt in the wounds), and then the GL falls. Ergh.

On the plus side, Curraghs are a real hoot. And so is the Mausoleum.

Talk to you later.

- TT

	26-03-2004 16:56									#80
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Thanks for all the help! I've never had a problem once i got one thing: Experience. I'll post back in a couple of weeks how I'm doing.

Thanks

	27-03-2004 05:32									#81
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Ok...it hasn't even been a day yet, but I've played through about 6 games since i read this post and EVERY single time the same thing happens: Everything goes just like the thread says, perfectly, great relations, until the STUPID FRENCH GET NEWTONS UNIVERSITY!!!!!!!!! What am I doing wrong?!?!?!?!?! Should I post a save game or something for you to look at? Screenshots?
*sigh* this is taking all the fun outta OCC, I think I might give up for a while Unless someone can help me

Thanks

	27-03-2004 05:56									#82
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Yeah, post a save or two. Somewhere after you've built Copes or maybe when you've researching Physics, somewhere in there.

- TT

	27-03-2004 06:04									#83
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Okey Dokey , see If you can fix my screw ups:

I'm using "Gold Edition" BTW, so if it doesn't load up, that's probably why.

Attachment: emperor occ greek good2.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	27-03-2004 06:07									#84
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

And here's one of me building Copes:

Attachment: emperor occ greek good3.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	27-03-2004 06:08									#85
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

And this is sometime after i think:



EDIT: Thanks, BTW

Attachment: emperor occ greek good4.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	27-03-2004 06:23									#86
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Great Razzor. I'll take a peek at them tomorrow evening and post some comments after that.

- TT

	27-03-2004 07:31									#87
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ok, thanks a-million.

	27-03-2004 08:07									#88
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I just finished an OCC at emperor level and failed badly. Initially it was alright, I built the Colossus, Great Library and Copernicus. After that it was downhill all the way. Simply can't catch up with techs.
I ended up building the most populous city (size 31) in the world by irrigating all the grasslands just for fun.

	27-03-2004 18:24									#89
	Get a bigger avatar today!

You have the same problem as me: Everything just fine till Copes. Bet we're doing the same thing wrong. TT said he'd look at my saves to see if he could figure it out.

	28-03-2004 01:56									#90
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I just finished a Monarch OCC game where I went through the Middle and Industrial Ages just great, got the GL, Copes, Theory of Gravity, and ToE right on schedule, and probably due to a terrific starting location (two luxuries, a cow, and about 10 river squares on the coast-WOW) I had absurd numbers of beakers coming in, I think more than 350 before the colossus became obsolete. I hit the modern age and I chose computers as my freebie tech and got seti, and built a research lab, and my beakers jumped up to about 450. I was confident I had it in the bag...and then I started trying to research. Suddenly I couldn't keep up at all. The jump in tech cost meant that even researching at 100%, I was only getting techs about every 12 turns, while the biggest AIs seemed to be on the 4-turn pace. I squandered my treasury buying the first few modern age techs after my freebie, and I couldn't make it back because at 100% science I had no money coming in, and the smaller, less-advanced rivals couldn't pay me enough to make up the deficit (especially when I had to keep paying India, my biggest rival, for aluminum). The big boys started piling up treasuries of 20,000g and I had nothing to trade them to get it back.

I did eventually win with a launch, but ONLY because the two big boys lacked uranium, by pure luck, and I made sure to get on really good terms with the Aztecs, who were the only civ to have any extra. I had to resort to stealing techs from the avanced civs because I couldn't afford to buy them or wait to research them. But if it wasn't for their uranium deficit, they would have launched about 20 turns before I could build up enough money to steal the laser.

The things I did wrong, according to the strategies posted here, are that a) I took my city up to capacity (about 29) instead of leaving it at 20, and made lots of scientists, b) I didn't start selling techs for super-cheap (under 50g) until the mid-industrial ages, and c) I had about 10 military units. Still, I don't see how fixing these problems could have helped my sub-par modern-age science rate. What am I missing? Should I have dropped modern-age science down to nothing and just bought techs? If so, then how do I get to The Laser first?