07-07-2003 10:29									#91
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I tried playing around a bit to create a possible AU civgroups icon. I'm not much of a computer artist though. What do you think?

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	07-07-2003 14:25									#92
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Maybe I can add my 10 penn'orth as a long time lurker here and a full time staff member at CFC.

I think the biggest single event that developed people's interest in GOTM to the point where we have 250+ entries each month was the introduction of the QSC - the Quick Start Challenge. It was a contest over the first 80 turns of the game ie up to 1000bc to see who could develop their civ the best. Inevitably there has been a lot of ahem discussion about the mechanics of the scoring but one spinoff has been that everyone keeps really detailed records turn by turn of every move. That in conjunction with Crackers guide to the opening moves has done more to raise standards of play than anything. SGs are great but its not possible for 200+ people to play in them and compare.

Comparing your game to others has never been easier. When a lot of people slowed down and started to plan their moves the general level of standard went up and up. GOTM20 was on deity level and 100+ (iirc) people will have beaten it (results out soon).

Of course, once you play your first 80 turns with care - and lets face it, they are the critical ones in most games - folks wanted to carry on to the end and compare their games.

Some people play for score; others just play for a good time. A couple of us started up a lowest scoring win subcontest and developed a whole host of OCC skills along the way.

The key to GOTMs success has been
1) prominent links on the front page of the site
2) a well organised and dedicated team of staff
3) organised strategy threads
4) a community where the top players show how they won and why they made the choices they did.
5) efficient weeding out of cheaters.

	07-07-2003 14:40									#93
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Thanks for your comments colinf.

quote: The key to GOTMs success has been 1) prominent links on the front page of the site 2) a well organised and dedicated team of staff 3) organised strategy threads 4) a community where the top players show how they won and why they made the choices they did. 5) efficient weeding out of cheaters.

1. I think we all agree that the AU games need this.
2. We have this I think. Whether we can quite match the determination and commitment of the team at CFC is another matter of course.
3. We definitely need to make sure the threads are well organised. Good work has already been done on this - it needs to be maintained and made more prominent.
4. This is the best thing about AU. We have these players in abundance - hopefully publicising the initiative will attract more: you can never have too many.
5. Because the AU games are non-competitive we, fortunately, do not have to worry about this too much. Any cheaters would, quite literally, be only cheating themselves. We can't stop people adopting 'minor cheats', such as reloading the game after an especially dumb move (I done this before), but that doesn't matter because it's all supposed to be a learning process. If you learn from your mistakes then it's all good.

quote: OTM20 was on deity level and 100+ (iirc) people will have beaten it (results out soon).

Impressive.

	07-07-2003 20:26									#94
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Just an idea that crossed my mind while reading through this thread... as AU is non-competitive and learning-oriented, what about awarding prizes based upon something like an "artistic impression" (something NOT based on score or not solely based on score).

Like:

- most impressive/elegant win
- best AAR
- best story (?)

I imagine that after a new AU course would be announced and published, there would be a certain period (1,2,3 months) people could submit their AARs & stories for a "contest". After this period would be over, all entries would be organized into a simple poll and people would choose the ones they will have liked most. Those that played the AU course and submitted their AAR/story might have multiple votes or something, to encourage participation, while not excluding those that are happy just watching...

Maybe it's a stupid idea, dunno... (I've never had time to play any AU course, so I may very well be completely missing something important). But it would be easy enough to implement, totally different from GOTM, and still something players might consider a worthy award (since the award would be actually given by others, who played that game or watched it being played).

	07-07-2003 21:14									#95
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FYI, here is what Kon posted at MZO:
__________________________________

Here are the awards that will be handed out at the end of each Boot Camp.

The Kofi Anan Award: Fastest Diplomatic Win.

The Neil Armstrong Award: Fastest Spaceship Win

The Hernan Cortés Award: Fastest Domination Win

The Michelangelo Award: Fastest Cultural Win

The Alexander the Great: Fastest Conquest Win

The William Shakespeare Award: Best After Action Report

The Leonardo da Vinci Award: Best Overall Game

The Napoléon Bonaparte Award: Most Impressive Move

The Machievelli Award: Most Effective Global Puppeteer

The Adam Smith Award: Juciest Deal Out of the AI (in gpt).


The ['messed up head' smiley] Award: Best defeat

The ['dancing banana' smiley] Award: Highest Overall Score

Rememeber that some of the Awards are voted by the public, so do your best to convince it!

--Kon--

_________________________

We'll obviously need to change this a bit, but I like it... along with both Kon and Vondrack's thoughts on public voting.

	07-07-2003 22:08									#96
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I like the ideas. Althought there is one probem. I know newcomers will feel discouraged going for these awards as they will think they stand no chance...

	07-07-2003 23:29									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master I like the ideas. Althought there is one probem. I know newcomers will feel discouraged going for these awards as they will think they stand no chance...

You're right. Perhaps that is something to put in the new AU cover page that Theseus was talking about. State something about it being for everyone, newcomers included.

Okay so my civgroup icon didn't turn out too well. I'll play with it some more tonight to see what I can do. If anyone else has any ideas for the icon please post them.

	07-07-2003 23:38									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill You're right. Perhaps that is something to put in the new AU cover page that Theseus was talking about. State something about it being for everyone, newcomers included. Okay so my civgroup icon didn't turn out too well. I'll play with it some more tonight to see what I can do. If anyone else has any ideas for the icon please post them.

hi ,

your icon looks fine , ....

have a nice day

	08-07-2003 03:01									#99
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But if I were a newbie I would still feel small even if it said that. We need to make it appeal to them. Maybe have awards like Most improved and Best newcomer. *shrug* So what should I ask the owners? I was going to ask DanQ.

	08-07-2003 03:36									#100
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Competitive or not - getting newbies to participate in anything perceived as skill based is difficult (I consider myself a newbie of sorts), particularly in a forum populated with obviously skilled players. Few people like to make their mistakes in public, under pseudonym or not.

That said, combining ideas I saw in this thread, in addition to advertising that the AU hones the skill of all players, maybe insert a blurb noting the AU is a good "Newbie Training Ground" or similar. Emphasize AU can help with the basic aspects of the game at the basic level. Maybe even include basic information on how to capture screen shots and post them - all the first time stuff that feels inclusive.

	08-07-2003 03:46									#101
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FYI - I'm going to go ahead and post new threads in each of the four democracy game forums to try and get some ideas going for intro pages (and perhaps volunteers to create them). Anyone who has ideas for them, please post there. Thanks.

	08-07-2003 04:52									#102
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I think to an extent no matter what we do newbies are going to be intimidated. Heck, I was at first. I only played on Warlord. I saw all of you on emporer or even diety but figured what they hay, it looks like fun.

As long as we make it look like fun(and it is) and be welcoming to newbies(which we are) I think people will come in on their own. Of course having a newbie award isn't a bad idea. Also letting people know it's a good way to improve their game is a great idea.

As long as we don't fudge up what we're doing now and keep AU a fun experience where all are welcomed and respected it'll turn out okay. (Wow, that almost sounded optimistic, how uncharacteristic)

BigD

PS-Rhothaerill, your icon wasn't bad at all.

	08-07-2003 05:52									#103
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What a GREAT idea!!! Not "Most Improved" from game to game, but rather "Most Improved" in a single game.

1) Mucho invitations to new players.

2) DARs at 2150BC or 1000BC... in a supremely nice way, every one jumps in with the "standard" suggestions (e.g., 3-tile CP, mine, more workers, don;t over-garrison, etc.).

3) Award goes to most 'improvement' by 10AD.

It's sorta analogous to the Quick Start Challenge in the GOTM, but much more in the 'poly style.

Me like.

	08-07-2003 06:08									#104
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Thesus could you put in a post all the ideas so far?

	08-07-2003 07:08									#105
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I thought I did with my last summary post!!!

Seriously, although it was through my own filter (and I did start the thread ), I think we are on the right track.

We need volunteers to take on the various pieces... as we go, I am 100% sure that other good new ideas will come up, be explored, and be implemented.

(AAAAANNNNDDDD, I need a 'steam coming out of ears' smiley, there is an *E* in *THESEUS*!!!! )

	08-07-2003 07:14									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus (AAAAANNNNDDDD, I need a 'steam coming out of ears' smiley, there is an *E* in *THESEUS*!!!! )

There you are ThesEus...




I think we are on the right track. Keep it coming guys!

--Kon--

	08-07-2003 07:48									#107
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Sorry I missed it What do you want me to ask DanQ?

	08-07-2003 07:54									#108
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I get confused... DanQ is responsible for news? In that case, we need reports on the re-invigoration of CivIII at 'poly (including more AU stuff, but you can't do that until MarkG et al agree), what's going on in the DG games, and new AU courses as they come out.

	08-07-2003 09:52									#109
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All right so I played a bit more and came up with this icon. I think it's quite a bit better and a lot simpler than the other one (plus it has AU on it where the other one didn't )

Thoughts?

BTW, assuming we are definitely going to try and get an AU icon made, I don't know the process for having it accepted. I'm sure someone out there knows though. Help please.

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	08-07-2003 09:59									#110
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Ok I have some good news We are now allowed to post news about the AU and DG's! More good news to come. And Rhothaerill I like the icon!

	08-07-2003 10:09									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master Ok I have some good news We are now allowed to post news about the AU and DG's! More good news to come. And Rhothaerill I like the icon!

Sounds good NM. I don't have quite as much good news as there has only been one response so far to my posts in the DG's for intro pages. I just realized I forgot to post one in the ISDG (d'oh ), though obviously in that one we won't be able to write too much info about the game itself.

	08-07-2003 11:10									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus FYI, here is what Kon posted at MZO: __________________________________ Here are the awards that will be handed out at the end of each Boot Camp. The Kofi Anan Award: Fastest Diplomatic Win. The Neil Armstrong Award: Fastest Spaceship Win The Hernan Cortés Award: Fastest Domination Win The Michelangelo Award: Fastest Cultural Win The Alexander the Great: Fastest Conquest Win The William Shakespeare Award: Best After Action Report The Leonardo da Vinci Award: Best Overall Game The Napoléon Bonaparte Award: Most Impressive Move The Machievelli Award: Most Effective Global Puppeteer The Adam Smith Award: Juciest Deal Out of the AI (in gpt). The ['messed up head' smiley] Award: Best defeat The ['dancing banana' smiley] Award: Highest Overall Score Rememeber that some of the Awards are voted by the public, so do your best to convince it! --Kon-- _________________________ We'll obviously need to change this a bit, but I like it... along with both Kon and Vondrack's thoughts on public voting.

what about the
"has no life" award: biggest milking?
"city flipper" award: wins most cities by culture flip (coracle's favourite)
"viagra" award: super potent ultra fast breeding (growth / REXing)

and something for best non-standard strategy (not warmongering or techwhoring) ...

	09-07-2003 06:24									#113
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So I think we should poll this and see if the majority likes this. Present the idea and everything to MarkG and see if he approves. If he does then create a new thread for people to sign up for different jobs. Then elect a Chancellor.

	09-07-2003 06:40									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master So I think we should poll this and see if the majority likes this. Present the idea and everything to MarkG and see if he approves. If he does then create a new thread for people to sign up for different jobs. Then elect a Chancellor.

Sounds good NM. I was trying to get a bit more info and ideas for cover pages first so we could present them to Mark and Dan, but perhaps like UnO said in one of them it is best to get their approval before proceeding too much farther with this initiative.

	09-07-2003 06:58									#115
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We need to have a big post of everything we have said. So I can poll it. I dont know how good my post will be if I make it.

	09-07-2003 12:11									#116
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Nay you do not want a "he has no life" award as I would win that hands down.

	10-07-2003 05:13									#117
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IMHO, the preview of Conquests at Gamespot is all the more reason for us to get our house in order.

	10-07-2003 06:56									#118
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I've got a new idea, from playing AU402 with DARs...

Wouldn't it be cool to have some sort of summary table by phase of who accomplished what?

Diff level, contacts, tech, gold, gpt, military, GWs/SWs, etc.

Then, also, in the oh-so-'poly anarchic but helpful way, the more advanced players could chime in to help the newer players. This would also help facilitate the awards concept we are toying with.

Just an idea.

	10-07-2003 07:18									#119
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ThesEus. But it would be optional. Because newer players would not want to show there results.

	10-07-2003 07:30									#120
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You never know... there are players like Kon, and others, who have embraced the opportunity to have the more experienced help out.

But you are right, whatever we do needs to maintain a sensitivity to the newer players. I just thought that it would be a fun way to use the DARs. (And, for instance, I'd really like to see such a comparison for the phases of AU402)