04-07-2003 22:20									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by The Templar Unless it's Lieberman. I would like ot at least vote for an actual Democrat.

You can vote for a sure loser, or you can vote for the only one in the pack with a reasonable chance, given the current mood of the electorate, to defeat Bush.

quote: Dean is fairly centrist - but given the shrill conservative voices dominating the media, Dean looks liberal.

I suppose Dean is centrist on a spectrum that goes from Marx to Bush, yes.

	04-07-2003 22:23									#32
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: What about Wesley Clark? Seems he might throw his hat in the ring...

Too late, IMO. He's already well behind in raising money.

	04-07-2003 22:23									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: I suppose Dean is centrist on a spectrum that goes from Marx to Bush, yes

stop believing what you hear in the media... trying reading his platform literature then make up your mind.

	04-07-2003 22:25									#34
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We have Sava... just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we are idiots .

	04-07-2003 22:28									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we are idiots

no comment

	04-07-2003 22:31									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Sava stop believing what you hear in the media... trying reading his platform literature then make up your mind.

I've read his stuff, and am familiar with Vermont politics.

If you recall, I don't live in the US, so my exposure to US media is real limited, unless for some reason I wanted to bring cable TV into my office.

Besides, Bush's campaign theme described him as a "compassionate conservative" - you believed that, didn't you?

	04-07-2003 22:32									#37
	Put an end to popups!

quote: you believed that, didn't you?

haha good point...

although I think it's worth mentioning that Dean isn't a Washington man... that's probably what I like best.

	04-07-2003 22:38									#38
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat You can vote for a sure loser, or you can vote for the only one in the pack with a reasonable chance, given the current mood of the electorate, to defeat Bush.

Lieberman won't get the base out, and the people who would vote for Lieberman would rather vote for Bush. Although Lieberman might give the Greens a 30% showing if he is the Dem nominee.

As for defeating Bush, that chances of that happening increase geometrically with every troop killed in Iraq after that "Mission Accomplished" banner on the carrier. It also increase with each new joblessness report. At the rate things are going, a ham sandwich will be able to beat Bush everywhere but the south. And lets face it, most of the south - mouthbreathers that they are - would vote for Stalin if he ran on the Republican ticket.

quote: I suppose Dean is centrist on a spectrum that goes from Marx to Bush, yes.

That's actually not a bad spectrum - taking us from the radical left to the ultra-nutcase right.

	04-07-2003 22:39									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: That's actually not a bad spectrum - taking us from the radical left to the ultra-nutcase right.

actually, Bush is probably closer to Stalin... if you put Stalin on the left, that is...

	04-07-2003 22:40									#40
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Um... if you think Bush is on the ultra-nutcase right, then I wonder where you put the REAL nutcase rightys .

	04-07-2003 22:41									#41
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: And lets face it, most of the south - mouthbreathers that they are - would vote for Stalin if he ran on the Republican ticket.

Ah, another bashing of the South without facts . You do realize there are plenty of Democrats in office over the South right? Senators, Governors, you name it.

	04-07-2003 22:46									#42
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Ah, another bashing of the South without facts . You do realize there are plenty of Democrats in office over the South right? Senators, Governors, you name it.

I don't think he counts Southern Democrats as real Democrats.

	04-07-2003 22:47									#43
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Ah, another bashing of the South without facts . You do realize there are plenty of Democrats in office over the South right? Senators, Governors, you name it.

The South has been traditionally a Democratic stronghold... back when the Dem's supported racist policies

But seriously, the South has been mostly Democratic.

	04-07-2003 22:48									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

DD: Even though that destroys his position that the South will vote for anyone with 'Republican' written next to him?

	04-07-2003 22:48									#45
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I'd vote for Howard Dean. Maaaaaaybe John Kerry. But I'd like Dean alot more.

I met Howard Dean back when I was in college in Iowa. Really nice guy - he answered my question! It was, do you think coming from Vermont would hurt your chances in a presidential race? And his answer was no, obviously with some reasoning behind it all...

	04-07-2003 22:49									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: But seriously, the South has been mostly Democratic.

Yep, last year at this time, Georgia had TWO Democratic Senators and a Democratic Governor. Democrats were totally in charge. A historic couple of upsets led to one of those Senators and the Governor to be Republicans (first Republican Governor since Reconstruction).

	04-07-2003 22:55									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui DD: Even though that destroys his position that the South will vote for anyone with 'Republican' written next to him?

If I had cared to I could have destroyed it by pointing to the current Governor of MS.

However I don't think that Dean would have much of a chance in carrying the South.

	04-07-2003 22:56									#48
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: And lets face it, most of the south - mouthbreathers that they are - would vote for Stalin if he ran on the Republican ticket. Ah, another bashing of the South without facts . You do realize there are plenty of Democrats in office over the South right? Senators, Governors, you name it.

Actually, I'm thinking mostly of Texas (especially the Dallas Metroplex), Alabama, North Louisiana, and Mississippi. I've lived in Texas and Louisiana (and had many students from Mississippi and Alabama) so I know the attitude (especially in Dallas) and have the facts.

Besides, wasn't Georgia the state where the people threw out a triple amputee from Vietnam because he wasn't patriotic? Yet they love Bush - Mr. Draft Dodger - who was too drunk and coked up to even make it to air guard duty. That speaks volumes about the integrity of Georgia. Then of course there was the governor who won in part by promising to hold a referendum on the flag. Of course, business feared a NAACP boycott, so the governor reneged on his promise by not putting the old racist flag on the referendum ballot. And I bet every one of those rubes will vote for the Republican again.

And yes, Bush is a right wing nut - he just disguises it well since he would like to be a two term president (unlike his daddy). But Bush is an obnoxious combination of big business (not libertarian - Bush loves corporate welfare) and homophobic anti-woman right-wing Christianity. If you want to see just how evil Bush is, we would need a second term. Because once the need for reelection is gone, Bush will be free to pursue his pogrom without the nicey-nice rhetoric and restraint.

	04-07-2003 22:56									#49
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by The Templar Lieberman won't get the base out, and the people who would vote for Lieberman would rather vote for Bush. Although Lieberman might give the Greens a 30% showing if he is the Dem nominee.

"The base" is too damned lazy to vote anyway. That's why there's always this wailing and gnashing of teeth in the democratic party about turnout, and the conventional wisdom about high turnouts favoring the Democrats, because Republican voters make a point of voting. Maybe if we had voting the same day and place as picking up the welfare check, more of "the base" would deign to get off their asses and vote?

If you have to pander to a bunch of ass-sitters who can't decide if they'd rather bother going three blocks for a few minutes to vote, you're already screwed.

The greens are lucky to get their two percent looney fringe protest vote, and that's it.

quote: As for defeating Bush, that chances of that happening increase geometrically with every troop killed in Iraq after that "Mission Accomplished" banner on the carrier. It also increase with each new joblessness report. At the rate things are going, a ham sandwich will be able to beat Bush everywhere but the south.

Actually, the problem is that the Dems are likely to put up a candidate who's even worse than a ham sandwich.

quote: And lets face it, most of the south - mouthbreathers that they are - would vote for Stalin if he ran on the Republican ticket.

Mouth breathing is a sign of doing good, honest, hard work. And ol' Joe is a bit too pro-labor union and pro-big government, thank you.

	04-07-2003 23:00									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: But seriously, the South has been mostly Democratic. Yep, last year at this time, Georgia had TWO Democratic Senators and a Democratic Governor. Democrats were totally in charge. A historic couple of upsets led to one of those Senators and the Governor to be Republicans (first Republican Governor since Reconstruction).

This demographic has switched since the Republicans started talking about states rights (i.e. the right of a state to not implement civil rights measures) and the Democrats took up the banner of civil rights.

Since Reagan implemented his obnoxious Southern Strategy, the white South has been flocking to the Republican party.

And we'll see if Mississippi still has a Democratic governor after the next election.

	04-07-2003 23:04									#51
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Actually, the problem is that the Dems are likely to put up a candidate who's even worse than a ham sandwich.

This is probably true. Or at least that's how I felt before Dean started gaining so much ground.

quote: Mouth breathing is a sign of doing good, honest, hard work. And ol' Joe is a bit too pro-labor union and pro-big government, thank you.

Uh, unions are a good thing. They promote pairity of bargaining power between workers and management. Oh wait, I see, you don't like pairity of bargaining power. Damn worjers! Trying to get paid what they are worth!

	04-07-2003 23:07									#52
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by The Templar And we'll see if Mississippi still has a Democratic governor after the next election.

That depends on how skillful a politician Musgrove is. There's a reason why the election of Fordice was historic here.

	04-07-2003 23:16									#53
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc That depends on how skillful a politician Musgrove is. There's a reason why the election of Fordice was historic here.

You're in Mississippi!?

That explains it ...

	04-07-2003 23:17									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: wasn't Georgia the state where the people threw out a triple amputee from Vietnam because he wasn't patriotic?

quote: Then of course there was the governor who won in part by promising to hold a referendum on the flag. Of course, business feared a NAACP boycott, so the governor reneged on his promise by not putting the old racist flag on the referendum ballot. And I bet every one of those rubes will vote for the Republican again.

Your ignorance of the situation is Georgia is astounding .

Max Cleland (the triple amputee) was defeated very narrowly because he didn't back all of the Homeland Security bill. It didn't have much to do with patriotism but with a vote on a bill. Though some idiots thought because that since Cleland was a war hero he should get critisized at all .

As for the Governor thing. Most of those 'rubes' voted Democrat in the past. And you know, probably will again. Governor Perdue did put the old flag to a vote in the Legislature (where it would need to pass in order to become a referendum). It failed and the new flag (the Confederate political flag) passed. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Perdue lost in the next election.

Actually though the main reason the Democrat Governor Barnes lost in the last election was because the Teachers' Union was against him and voted against him in high numbers (and they usually back Democrats). He pissed them off greatly.

Oh, and Senator Zell Miller (D-Ga) will probably never be voted out of office. He can probably stay as long as Strom did .

	04-07-2003 23:18									#55
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by The Templar You're in Mississippi!?

I've never hid that.

	04-07-2003 23:19									#56
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: You're in Mississippi!? That explains it ...

You're just full of tact and politeness aren't you .

Now I remember why I dislike most of my Northern breathern.

	04-07-2003 23:30									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"Mouth breathing is a sign of doing good, honest, hard work."

I can't believe Michaelthegreat actually ADVOCATED mouth breathing!!! You rightists really are INSANE!

Sure, Dean may not have a great chance with the south, but then again, gore didn't carry any southern states either, and he came close to winning.

Howard Dean has alot more charisma than Gore, and I think he would do well going national. He is the most popular democratic candidate among online voters.

	04-07-2003 23:38									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

What does "mouthbreathing" mean ?

	04-07-2003 23:43									#59
	Increase Your PM Length

I don't have any clue either Spiffor. Maybe I'll type it into Google .

	05-07-2003 00:16									#60
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc However I don't think that Dean would have much of a chance in carrying the South.

Is there a single Democrat that would have a chance in the South against Bush?

On the other hand, think of all the states Gore carried in 2000. I can't see any reason why Dean wouldn't carry every one of those states, with the exceptions of Pennsylvania and New Mexico. Plus, I'd wager he'd pick up New Hampshire and West Virginia, and possibly Ohio.