 |
| |
|
|
MichaeltheGreat
|
|
Apolyton Grand Executioner
|
 |
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:29
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
I'd believe them over you.
|
Ohhhhhhhhh...  
Great index, that assigns numerical values to subjective issues like "corruption" (guess the UN must be expert at evaluating that  ) and "press freedom" - considering the way the UN works, I laugh my ass off.
quote:
It doesn't bother me if you're all too dumb to spend this wealth on making your lives better, but would rather spend it on costly military programs that don't work.
|
I'll spend my own money on making my life better, thank you. I don't expect the government to come along and tell me what "makes my life better" then impose it on me.
quote:
What's that got to do with it? What's the point of having a bigger economy if you keep getting beat by socialist nations like Norway and Sweden? Those damn commies, how dare they be better.
|
If they were "better" it'd be a problem. Comparing Norway, a country of less than 5 million, which is currently the third largest exporter of oil and gas in the world, to any other country, is a joke. Especially when the oil and gas resources will start depleting in two decades. The only Norway will have going for it then is foreign invested profits they've been smart enough to set aside.
Why don't you start comparing the US to real countries that don't sit on disproportionate raw resources and only exist in first world status by using their finite resources to subsidize their welfare states?
quote:
It makes things worse.
|
Worse for slackers, yes.
quote:
I actually like the cold. I can't stand the heat. 
|
You're welcome to as much of it as you want.
quote:
We have no neighbourhoods like this in NZ.
|
The only ones who run scared are sheep. Besides, NZ has a size about that of Colorado, and barely half the population of Los Angeles County.
quote:
There is, it's just **** Cheney's. |
Hey, according to Annie Coulter, he's just the perfect studly chunk of manhood.
Last edited by MichaeltheGreat on 05-07-2003 at 09:43
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
MichaeltheGreat
|
|
Apolyton Grand Executioner
|
|
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:29
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by monolith94
"I'll send you some pictures of lithe, tanned hot, bikini-clad chicas on the beach a few hundred yards from my house."
Too bad yr married, eh? You make a provocative argument for Mexico as opposed to Vermont, but I know where my heart is. Our breasts my be smaller, but our souls are larger. |
Not too bad for me, I don't care. But I was just thinking of something to warm your blood up in those loooooooooong coooooooooooooold winters.
What would you know of the Mexican soul?  We don't have quite the ascetic qualities one can derive from spending half the year counting snowflakes, I'll give you that.
quote:
Plus, Vermont may have high taxes, but it has a great education system, is not in debt, and is generally well run. Of course the state of Vermont is not like the United States economy wise, but I'm sure Howard Dean understands that...  |
TAX AND SPEND BABY! Yeah, that'll sell in the general election.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Thud
|
 |
Proud to be an American
Jul 2002
time: 00:29
|
|
quote:
You have plenty to live on if you work 40 hours a week for minimum wage. But of course, if you gotta have your cable TV and second car, you may run into problems fiscally. |
Well, yes, of course. But with Nader in charge, and tax rates zooming up to 70%, then I wouldn't be able to support myself. I might live off the government, but I don't stand with being dependent.
quote:
Nations with brains have realised that the fundmental question of government is not how far the state interferes in people's lives, but what is the simplest and most efficient way of delivering the services people want. |
Exactly. Allow the free market to do it. When a "nation with brains" decides that their government can do it "simplest and most efficient", then you end up with the USSR. Look how that turned out!
quote:
Oh. So that's why the hotel I stayed in in LA last year had a huge notice on your bed telling you not to go outside or open your door. Or why it had a heavily armed security guard in the lobby. Silly me... |
Most people judge the United States of America solely on L.A., and its a tragedy. They see hollywood movies, hollywood scandals, and they see how decadent L.A.ers are, or they go to L.A. and see the crime and slums, and they say- "we don't like that at all". L.A., is, however, and entirely different world than the rest of the nation.
quote:
No, the government should be in the "make sure everyone has an opportunity to feed, clothe and house themselves" business. |
Well, here in America, some of us still like our quaint little Constitution, which says that the government must protect our rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Pursuit of happiness, mind you, not to ensure happiness in itself. Everyone has an opportunity to feed, clothe, and house themselves, if they play their cards right. People on the street are on the street for a reason. They made particular choices, and squandered their opportunities.
This is also why our nation is the only one to get so uppity about abortion- life and pursuit of happyness are inalienable rights sure as women's supposed liberty to do whatever they want is.
Last edited by Thud on 05-07-2003 at 18:37
|
|
| |
|
|
|
The Templar
|
 |
People's Republic of the East Village
Oct 2001
time: 00:29
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Thud
Exactly. Allow the free market to do it. When a "nation with brains" decides that their government can do it "simplest and most efficient", then you end up with the USSR. Look how that turned out! |
Pure dogma! Gee look at Victorian England or the US of the early 20th century. Yeah, the market worked out so well - what with people working 12 hour shifts in grueling conditions for a nickel an hour.
The free market will only produce what will make a buck. Unfortunately for your dogma people are not mere consumers.
quote:
Most people judge the United States of America solely on L.A., and its a tragedy. They see hollywood movies, hollywood scandals, and they see how decadent L.A.ers are, or they go to L.A. and see the crime and slums, and they say- "we don't like that at all". L.A., is, however, and entirely different world than the rest of the nation. |
Oh yes, book burning Christian Fundamentalists of the south would project a much better image to the world.
quote:
Everyone has an opportunity to feed, clothe, and house themselves, if they play their cards right. People on the street are on the street for a reason. They made particular choices, and squandered their opportunities. |
What a wonderful fairy tail! There's a great book out called "Nickeled and Dimed" which discusses the American Reality - that people are working very hard at two jobs merely to clothe and feed themselves. And then if they have kids, those kids grow up poor with little access to education and little hope and the cycle continues.
quote:
Well, yes, of course. But with Nader in charge, and tax rates zooming up to 70%, then I wouldn't be able to support myself. I might live off the government, but I don't stand with being dependent. |
I saved this one for last because it best demonstrates your own insecurity - and the same insecurity expressed by all libertarians - dependency.
You see, we are all dependent. Dependent on the company that gives us the job. Dependentt on the landlord to provide housing. Dependent on the grocery store for food. And people who own their own companies are even more dependent - they are slaves to the marketplace, completely dependent on the whims of others.
Independence is best realized by building your own mud hut and engaging in subsitence agriculture. But even then you are dependent on others for companionship.
The "self-made man" is a complete myth. Anyone who obsesses over being "self-made" or completely independent has some mommy-issues.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
MichaeltheGreat
|
|
Apolyton Grand Executioner
|
|
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:29
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Templar
Pure dogma! Gee look at Victorian England or the US of the early 20th century. Yeah, the market worked out so well - what with people working 12 hour shifts in grueling conditions for a nickel an hour.
|
And of course you have to go back nearly a century or more to find your "examples."
quote:
The free market will only produce what will make a buck. Unfortunately for your dogma people are not mere consumers.
|
So the state's now in the business of meeting spiritual needs and other intangibles?
quote:
What a wonderful fairy tail! There's a great book out called "Nickeled and Dimed" which discusses the American Reality - that people are working very hard at two jobs merely to clothe and feed themselves. And then if they have kids, those kids grow up poor with little access to education and little hope and the cycle continues.
|
Sounds like a nice fairy tale.
quote:
I saved this one for last because it best demonstrates your own insecurity - and the same insecurity expressed by all libertarians - dependency.
You see, we are all dependent. Dependent on the company that gives us the job. Dependentt on the landlord to provide housing. Dependent on the grocery store for food. And people who own their own companies are even more dependent - they are slaves to the marketplace, completely dependent on the whims of others.
|
Nice philosophical point, but you not only missed the boat, you missed the ocean and are at a train depot in Peoria.
The question of "dependency" is not dependent vs. independent.
It's forced dependency on an arbitrary power, vs. chosen interdependency on those who you choose to deal with. If I don't like my landlord, or my tenant doesn't like me as a landlord, we are not stuck with each other - there are a pool of landlords and a pool of tenants. Same with employment, etc.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Agathon
|
 |
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:29
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Great index, that assigns numerical values to subjective issues like "corruption" (guess the UN must be expert at evaluating that ) and "press freedom" - considering the way the UN works, I laugh my ass off. |
Well it is about the best there is going.
Anyway, Canada took a slide this year after over 10 years at number one - so I guess there'll be some soul searching here.
quote:
I'll spend my own money on making my life better, thank you. I don't expect the government to come along and tell me what "makes my life better" then impose it on me. |
Yes, when I was growing up the government was consistently at my door telling me what to do.
quote:
If they were "better" it'd be a problem. Comparing Norway, a country of less than 5 million, which is currently the third largest exporter of oil and gas in the world, to any other country, is a joke. Especially when the oil and gas resources will start depleting in two decades. The only Norway will have going for it then is foreign invested profits they've been smart enough to set aside. |
Norway, Sweden, The Netherlands, Australia, Belgium all come in better than the US this year. How about all those resources the Dutch have?
quote:
Why don't you start comparing the US to real countries that don't sit on disproportionate raw resources and only exist in first world status by using their finite resources to subsidize their welfare states? |
Just did.
quote:
Worse for slackers, yes. |
You don't understand. When there was full employment in New Zealand, everyone worked. There weren't any slackers. If there are decent jobs with decent pay then everyone will work, even though they could live quite comfortably off the dole.
quote:
The only ones who run scared are sheep. Besides, NZ has a size about that of Colorado, and barely half the population of Los Angeles County. |
Do I have to keep saying this? It's the Australians who **** sheep, not us.
quote:
Hey, according to Annie Coulter, he's just the perfect studly chunk of manhood. |
That woman is utterly deranged.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:29.
Apolyton Time is 00:29. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
05-07-2003 09:30
|