05-07-2003 21:58									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel would you say that catholicism is a religion of forgivness and love in the dark ages?

It was until it began to assimilate large numbers of Germanic tribesmen, and even then it was light years more loving and forgiving than the traditional religions of the peoples it assimilated. Could you imagine the Conquistadors going forth into the world in the name of Wotan?

	05-07-2003 22:00									#32
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Well, the mass genocide of the natives would have been much cooler if it had been.

	05-07-2003 22:01									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael Then don't pick on Islam.

I pick on Islam just as much as I pich on Christianity and Judaism, relative to their strength in the public minds.

quote: You could compare the acts of Palestinian terrorists to those of the Macebees(sp)

If you want to apply the same standards to now and then, then I guess, yes. But you'd think we've advanced a bit in the last 2300 years.

	05-07-2003 22:10									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil You could compare the acts of Palestinian terrorists to those of the Macebees(sp)

The Stern Gang and similar Jewish organizations would be the more apropiate comparison.

	05-07-2003 22:12									#35
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The Stern Gang and similar Jewish organizations would be the more apropiate comparison.

Let's compare atrocities, and the cases of deliberate targetting of civilians.

	05-07-2003 22:12									#36
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Azazel how do you know the bombers were Islamic? You jumped ahead of the story with that one.

	05-07-2003 22:14									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Let's compare atrocities, and the cases of deliberate targetting of civilians.

None of them were particularly shy about killing civilians.

	05-07-2003 22:16									#38
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Vet:
Today, Muslims have the monopoly of suicide attacks, so it is most likely these bombers are Muslim. But maybe we're seeing a new form of Christian / Jewish terorrism ?

	05-07-2003 22:22									#39
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I hear that concert was a blast!

Was Great White playing at it?

	05-07-2003 22:22									#40
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion Azazel how do you know the bombers were Islamic? You jumped ahead of the story with that one.

I am a clairvoyant.

quote: None of them were particularly shy about killing civilians.

That is true of all the sides at that time. The Jews and the Brits moved on. SOMEONE didn't.

	05-07-2003 22:24									#41
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay I hear that concert was a blast! Was Great White playing at it?

	05-07-2003 22:24									#42
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It is very likely they are muslim (they don't have a monopoly: see Tamil fighters.)

I just hope serious decision makers don't make rushed conclusions before they know the facts. Azazel I would not vote for you

	05-07-2003 22:26									#43
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion It is very likely they are muslim (they don't have a monopoly: see Tamil fighters.)

I guess I am a clairvoyant, since that's exactly what I thought of when I saw Spiffor's response. But I don't remember many Tamils in Moscow.

quote: I just hope serious decision makers don't make rushed conclusions before they know the facts.

	05-07-2003 22:26									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel That is true of all the sides at that time. The Jews and the Brits moved on. SOMEONE didn't.

No, the Jews gained power. They didn't have to use suicide bombers anymore.

Jewish terrorism stopped when Israel came into existence. Now they kill people with weapons made in factories instead of weapons made in homes.

	05-07-2003 22:28									#45
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Reminds me of when I was on a Christian forum.

"Ok, if Catholicism is simular as Islam, where are the Catholic bombers?"

"Ireland"

	05-07-2003 22:32									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael No, the Jews gained power. They didn't have to use suicide bombers anymore. Jewish terrorism stopped when Israel came into existence. Now they kill people with weapons made in factories instead of weapons made in homes.

I like your moving of the subject into the general "killing people" as soon as talk of protecting civilians as a priority appears.

	05-07-2003 22:37									#47
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I'm not making judgments. I won't say that the actions of the Jews are worse or that the actions of the Palestinians are worse. I don't see the point in that. I'm just trying to stop you from making double standards.

	05-07-2003 22:39									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael I'm not making judgments. I won't say that the actions of the Jews are worse or that the actions of the Palestinians are worse. I don't see the point in that. I'm just trying to stop you from making double standards.

If you want me to stop from having them, first you've got to show me them in my opinions.

	05-07-2003 22:44									#49
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In reality these suicidal attackers may have no connection to Islam, or the religion itself may be a side issue. However I understand your emotional reaction since you are an Israeli.

And as to governments, why the smiley, most do not react to things emotionally, they sit and learn facts and think. Israel with its retaliatiory actions is a different story.

	05-07-2003 22:46									#50
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quote: However I understand your emotional reaction since you are an Israeli.

Israelis don't have prejudices against all Muslims, you know...

	05-07-2003 22:49									#51
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You've clearly shown a bias towards Israel in your posts. I can understand where that's coming from, and I can understand that because you are an Israeli, it's hard to see that bias.

But I have to clean up my cat's **** and then eat lunch.

Those two activities have nothing to do with each other...

So I'm not gonna put forth the effort right now to quote previous posts or anything like that.

	05-07-2003 22:50									#52
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion In reality these suicidal attackers may have no connection to Islam, or the religion itself may be a side issue. However I understand your emotional reaction since you are an Israeli.

No emotional reaction. Esp. since this terror act is against Russia ( though I am a Russian citizen also. )

quote: And as to governments, why the smiley, most do not react to things emotionally, they sit and learn facts and think. Israel with its retaliatiory actions is a different story.

No, what made me laugh is the fact that you give the same way to people on forums, and governments.

The potshot at the Israeli government was also apperciatend.

	05-07-2003 22:58									#53
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I don't know what the problem is with Azazel's comments. I see the religion as the primary cause of the terrorists acts that it's followers commit. Does anyone disagree with that?

	05-07-2003 22:59									#54
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Racist!!

	05-07-2003 23:00									#55
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Weird discussion. Would it have been morally better if the bombs had only been attached to objects and not people? If it had been a bunch of bombs hidden in garbage cans that kiled thse people, would there be some sort of difference?

Suicide bombings are a method of bombing, a very effective one, both in terms of the ability to succeed and in the psychologial impact to the overall population, but it really make little difference to those killed. I can say safely that thoase people killed by secularist orgs. with good old fashioned bombs are just as dead.

As for the real point: The question is how the Russians can solve the Chechnia issue.

	05-07-2003 23:01									#56
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How come whenever there seems to be an attack on Islam, people always bring up Northern Ireland as an example of Christian terrorism?

The reason why religion plays a role in the North is because the settlers from England and Scotland that arrived in the North were mainly Protestant, while the native Irish were Catholic. Therefore it stands to reason if the IRA/UVF go out and and kill a protestant/catholic, they've probably murdered someone that is a unionist/nationalist. Religion, sadly, is intertwined with politics in the North - with the latter, not the former really dictating which side of the line you stand on.

If you still consider it to be a religious conflict, take a closer look at the politics of the Irish nationalist groups - socialism has a big role (socialists aren't too big on religion) - one of the reasons why the IRA received such logistical support from the Eastern Bloc during the Cold War.

Ask any IRA or UVF member whether their beliefs are defined by their religion or their national aspriations; they'll always choose the latter.

	05-07-2003 23:08									#57
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Our Man:
This is exactly the same as in Israel/Palestine, or in Russia/Chechnya: religion has only channelled the hatred that came from the political conflict.

	05-07-2003 23:10									#58
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It has also created fertile grounds for the conflict.

	05-07-2003 23:14									#59
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Any idea that claims to lead to a truth can be a cause for conflict, speically when some other people are stupid enough not to agree with your truth...

Any ideas on what the Russians can do to get to an end game here?

	05-07-2003 23:16									#60
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They can send the lot of them to the far east, just like Stalin did.

Seriously, though, I think they should stop acting like all is over, there. That's their biggest mistake. That's what will haunt the US in Iraq, also.