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Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:29
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I think many people are whining. I don't particularly like the US, but the thing is, most of the people that are whining about it, esp. Russians, and French, just hate the fact that it's not their country that is in a position to dictate things to the world, but the US is.
This doesn't mean I am for the US dictating world policy, god forbid. I just think that lots of people are hypocritical.
You know, in some threads about the usual screw-up of the US government, I want to come and mock it, and then a bunch of *******s come, and start to sling mud at the US like a bunch of baboons for all the wrong reasons, and targetting the wrong areas. I am actually forced to make a U-turn and defend the US! It's ****ing inconcievable! And you know that these people would go apeshit If you ever said anything like that about their country ( in the areas that matter, of course). And you've got nothing else to do, but shake your head, and walk away.
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HershOstropoler
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The problem is that Americans get increasingly identified with the nutjobs running your country at the moment. Until recently, most people here saw Americans as a bit crazy, but overall nice, and politicians are politicians. Now the nicest things I hear about Americans is pigs, idiots and *******s.
Yet if it comforts you, the attitude does not "scream for blood", just for "**** off".
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Kramerman
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UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Jun 2002
time: 23:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
I think many people are whining. I don't particularly like the US, but the thing is, most of the people that are whining about it, esp. Russians, and French, just hate the fact that it's not their country that is in a position to dictate things to the world, but the US is.
This doesn't mean I am for the US dictating world policy, god forbid. I just think that lots of people are hypocritical.
You know, in some threads about the usual screw-up of the US government, I want to come and mock it, and then a bunch of *******s come, and start to sling mud at the US like a bunch of baboons for all the wrong reasons, and targetting the wrong areas. I am actually forced to make a U-turn and defend the US! It's ****ing inconcievable! And you know that these people would go apeshit If you ever said anything like that about their country ( in the areas that matter, of course). And you've got nothing else to do, but shake your head, and walk away. |
great post I agree 100%, at least, that was my perception of things.
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:29
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I have a very negative opinion of the policies of the US. And I feel highly distantiated of the "American mentality" in its high degree of individualism.
I fear the weight of religious fundamentalism has in the most powerful country in the world, and I fear as the absolute American confidence in that it never does wrong.
But my highest disappointment was that, after Sept. 11, the population stopped so quickly to wonder why. Instead of looking at their own role in the hatred they bring, the Americans resumed chest thumping louder than before, convincing themselves they were "hated because of their freedom", that "God was on their side", and generally to doubt even less of themselves (don't get me wrong, I don't think Americans deserved Sept. 11, nor that they're the only culprit of Antiamericanism, far from it).
The Day America stops being so self confident and arrogant will be the day when my opinions towards America will become better.
Otherwise, I really enjoy discussing with Americans. Save for the uber nationalism, the American folk seem to be cool people
Last edited by Spiffor on 06-07-2003 at 15:23
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yavoon
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
I have a very negative opinion of the policies of the US. And I feel highly distantiated of the "American mentality" in its high degree of individualism.
I fear the weight of religious fundamentalism in the most powerful country in the world, as well as the absolute confidence in that it never does wrong.
But my highest disappointment was that, after Sept. 11, the population stopped to wonder why so soon. Instead of looking at their own role in the hatred they bring, the Americans resumes chest thumping louder than before, convincing themselves they were "hated because of their freedom", that "God was on their side", and generally to doubt even less of themselves (don't get me wrong, I don't think Americans deserved Sept. 11, nor that they're the only culprit of Antiamericanism, far from it).
The Day America stops being so self confident and arrogant will be the day when my opinions towards America will become better.
Otherwise, I really enjoy discussing with Americans. Save for the uber nationalism, the American folk seem to be cool people |
I hardly think american thinks it never does wrong. I just think it always has confidence that its next decision is the correct one. obviously leaving afghanistan alone so long was a huge mistake.
do u not work like that? more of a self doubting man?
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Proteus_MST
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I think much like Spiffor.
Itīs especially the policies of the current American Government I donīt like.
But thereīs also one thing within the american mentality which worries me. I think it is the thing which Spiffor Called Uber Nationalism.
It seems that even if a President isnīt well likes by the american people, as soon as he starts a war a majority of the american people starts to support the goverment with more and more people joining the supporters as long as the war goes well for the USA. Along with this increasing Support the Number of Critics of the reasons for the war decreases, both in the american media and in the american Population.
Thatīs something I really donīt like, as it shows a lot of similarities to the Attitude of the Germans prior to WW1.
Along with this I found it very interesting that those Americans who still criticized the american Government were referred to be Unpatriotic or unamerican and some people even started to burn CDs of american artists who were against war. (although I think this Boycotting and/or public Burning of Books and/or CDs of Artists who were against the war isnīt something which was supported by a majority of the Americans [or at least I hope so  ]).
I found it strange, as I found that those people who called those American Artists who criticized Bush unamerican and tried to hurt them by burning their CDs and boycotting them, were themselves acting unamerican. Because, isnīt Freedom of Speech one of those things which are held high in the american Constitution?
Last edited by Proteus_MST on 06-07-2003 at 15:56
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yavoon
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
I try to understand what could lead to the failure of my plan before putting it into action. I may act even while knowing hits flaws, but at least it can help me devise a plan B.
Making gung-ho mistakes, only to understand afterwards what went wrong, is not my method. Besides, I know I don't hold the absolute truth, and I know I can be wrong. I also know that my definition of truth, good and greatness may not be universally shared. The American foreign policy doesn't seem to have understood this basic concept. |
I think we very well knew we screwed up. as is obvious, our methodology after 9/11 changed. we became a lot more aggressive having underestimated the threat of the vile hate-filled radical islamist religion, and its danger to americans.
the real problem is. we didn't change in the direction u wanted.
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yavoon
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Not exactly. You were convinced of the absolute righteousness of the American values and way to do things, and you are even more convinced now. You couldn't understand how YOU could cause hatred towards you, and today you can even less. You noticed how you went tactically wrong, but no how you went fundamentally wrong. |
do I believe that my values of freedom of speech are superior to oppression of women and killing of infidels? yes.
do I believe that my liking pizza is superior to someone liking bratworst? no.
I dont think we went fundamentally wrong when the major epicenter of the hatred comes from radical islam. cuz in some small part. ITS GOOD THEY HATE US. cuz everytime I look at what they believe, I hate them too.
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:29
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quote:
Originally posted by yavoon
the major epicenter of the hatred comes from radical islam. |
Indeed, the radical Islam is the epicenter of hatred, it is the place where people actually scream for blood in the proper meaning. But when I talk with Americans about the strong dislike their country gets from all over the world, I only hear that these antiamericans are merely "jealous" or "whiny". God forbid the actual attitude of the US has anything to do with it.
Also, God forbid the actual attitude of the US took part in throwing so many Arabs (who are normal people) in the arms of radical, violent and obscurantist Islamists.
Again, don't get me wrong. I don't hold the US for 100% responsible of this. Not even 50%. The "jealous" and "whiny" arguments aren't 100% false either. It is just that very few Americans wonder what is their part in antimaricanism.
From my perspective, the Americans seem to think they haven't done anything wrong to the rest of the world, and are still doing nothing wrong explaining why they are hated. The only thing they believe they do is being free and powerful that is, and that's why they are hated 
I know this is a groos generalisation, and it's not exactly like that. American leftists seem to bash the US, even disproportionately. Some Americans who have lived abroad came to understand how it feels like on the other side. But in general, I don't think the "normal Americans" have a clue on where its country was/is wrong wrt the hatred it brings. I'm pretty sure the "normal Americans" don't even want to know.
This is my subjective perspective as a foreigner who has discussed with many educated Americans on this board.
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yavoon
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Indeed, the radical Islam is the epicenter of hatred, it is the place where people actually scream for blood in the proper meaning. But when I talk with Americans about the strong dislike their country gets from all over the world, I only hear that these antiamericans are merely "jealous" or "whiny". God forbid the actual attitude of the US has anything to do with it.
Also, God forbid the actual attitude of the US took part in throwing so many Arabs (who are normal people) in the arms of radical, violent and obscurantist Islamists.
Again, don't get me wrong. I don't hold the US for 100% responsible of this. Not even 50%. The "jealous" and "whiny" arguments aren't 100% false either. It is just that very few Americans wonder what is their part in antimaricanism.
From my perspective, the Americans seem to think they haven't done anything wrong to the rest of the world, and are still doing nothing wrong explaining why they are hated. The only thing they believe they do is being free and powerful that is, and that's why they are hated
I know this is a groos generalisation, and it's not exactly like that. American leftists seem to bash the US, even disproportionately. Some Americans who have lived abroad came to understand how it feels like on the other side. But in general, I don't think the "normal Americans" have a clue on where its country was/is wrong wrt the hatred it brings. I'm pretty sure the "normal Americans" don't even want to know.
This is my subjective perspective as a foreigner who has discussed with many educated Americans on this board. |
its true there are a lot of arabs who are of varrying degrees of radicalism. and its not good that they are "caught in the middle." yet there they are. If I could wish them out of the hands of the islamic radicalists I would. but I can't.
I don't neccessarily think europeans understand americans either. for 50 years europe hasn't had to take a stand. it could always sit back and see how it ended up. always wait. now it barely has the ability to take one, much less the desire.
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Comrade Tassadar
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quote:
Originally posted by Kramerman
The people tried to explained the reasons for the anti-americanism, and said the main cause was the "your with us or against us" attitude and the general 'cowboy' and 'bulley' that the world perceives the US as.
But this seems to simple... this doesnt seem to explain why so many people's opinion of the US has seemed to plummit over the years. Or is this all just my imagination? fed by shows like the one i saw? |
I thought all the peoples knew about the worlds current stage of Anti-Americanism.
My opinion of America is actually quite positive. The people are generally friendly (With the exception of the New Yorkers.), and their navietity makes them seem cute 
I love American TV commercials. It's just so blatant and uber-excited that....It's wonderful 
I also like American processed cheeses. They have such a bland taste to them that theyre wonderful. I also like American culture (Otherwise known as "black culture"). And studying American political history can be quite entertaining.
However, my opinion of America QUICKLY fell when Bush came into office. His mishandeling of the economy, unable to provide results, and sparking the flame of anti-americanism really put me off. Combine this with the American publics recent wave of nationalism, and I've become fed up. However, I'm pretty sure that once Bush is outta office, my opinion will go up again.
My pain peeve is Sep11...Right after, Americans did not really think about why it happend or what to do to rectify it. What did they do?
"Kill the Muslims!!!!"
"AMERICA R0X0RS EVERYONES S0X0RS."
"Were invincible!! Were number 1!!!!!"
They go to war against Afghanistan. Hatred against Bin Laden is EXTREMLY HIGH. We go to war against Afghanistan (which I supported).
Suddenly, the focus shifts! Iraq! Weapons of Mass Destruction!!! Now 50+ percent of Americans believe it was SADDAM behind the attacks, and the majority also believe that the hijackers were IRAQI. 20 percent believe we've found WoMD in Iraq.
RIght afterwards, things changed:
"Death to France! Death to Germany!"
"I WISH FRANCE NEVER EXISTED!"
"ALL THE FRENCH PEOPLE ARE TERRORISTS!"
Then they think Sep11 happend because "They hate our freedom." "They are simply jealous cause were the best." Ugh. Did they ever stop to think theire ACTIONS and IGNORANCE cause sep11? And right after, the entire world offered its sympathy (Even Saddam! He said the American government deserved it, but the American people did not). But what do we do?
"HA, WERE BETTER THAN YOU ARE!!!!"
"YOU SUXORS, WERE SO MUCH STRONGER THAN YOU!!!"
"We don't need you. WE ARE AMERICANS!"
And then many Americans think America has never done ANYTHING wrong sans Vietnam and "electing Clinton". They accuse anyone who isn't mainstream (Mainstream now being Republican) as being a commie or a liberal or a democrat without even stopping to consider the opposite viewpoint....
And then American culture is spiraling down very quickly. America does not promote intellectual development (which has contributed to the sorry state of the nation), stresses physical strength above all....But 66+ percent of Americans are fat or obese. Meaning, Americans come out losing in the end.
July 4th really did hurt the nation, because it simply rekindles the "Were the best!!!" feeling. When Bin Laden set out to destroy America....I'm sorry to say, but he seems to be suceeding quite a bit. Americans are completly ignorant of what the rest of the world thinks, and of what its leaders are actually doing.
Another thing that really bothers me is Americas lack of social progression and tolerance. While the majority of the nation isn't redneck "Aww heww, lets cloze dem burders. we dont need no foreener skum." type, it is a growing movement. And then the gays issue.....But thats for another time.
Pardon the rant
Az: Israel sucks ***.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Big, wealthy nation. Makes nice wine and terrible beer. |
Not true. American beers are far better than you think. Try something other than Coors or Bud.
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06-07-2003 13:40
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