06-07-2003 21:22									#61
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Most Americans are dumb or ignorant.

But then that's not much different to any other country. It only seems worse in the US because its a big country with a strong voice such that the rest of the world can hear the ignorance.

At any rate, most USians can afford to be ignorant about the world because they are not likely to leave their country or have any need to know about the rest of the world. Of course this does not make it a good thing.

	06-07-2003 21:22									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I think that arabs have themselves to blame for being in the grips of Islamists.

That is clear. The people who constintly try to seek a foriegn (usually western) scape goat to blame the problems of [insert country or religious group here] are barking up the wrong tree. At the end of the day the Arabs themselves are responsible for having autocratic regimes, for nurturing religious fundalmentalism (not that contray to what some people think all religious feeling is not fundamentalism), creating failed socialist/protectionist economies which don't grow, for putting up with rampent corruption and lawlessness, and for poisoning the minds of their people with facist hate.

	06-07-2003 21:28									#63
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I think most Americans are perfectly reasonable, intelligent, thinking people that do no conform to the stereotype of the ignorant redneck that thinks we live in planet America.

However, I do believe that many Americans are patriotic, a niche of that particular culture perhaps, as well as an amount of conservatism that is disturbingly high from a British/European perspective. My views on patriotism and conservatism are probably known by now, so I wont repeat myself, suffice to say that IMO both are very harmful in the long term to all.

Theres a danger with this kind of thread that we all resort to the stereotypes that, one way or another, have been rammed down our throats for years, for example in Britain, we have a love/hate relationship with the USA, and with such extremes, fallacious stereotypes will inevitably occur.

	06-07-2003 21:43									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Personally I think that to a certain degree, this is true. The Islamists hate the modern culture for it's freedom. I see nothing stupid in that.

They hate it for it's moral depravity, which overlaps freedom to some extent. If you read al Qutb or al Maududi, it's clear that any deviation from Sharia, even if nearly equivalent, but man-made, is unacceptable. Man-made laws and government are also an offense to Allah, no matter how socially conservative, or not.

They hate the Saudi government, which is hardly a bastion of either legislative or social freedoms.

The big reason why we're the chosen object of hatred is we clearly have the power to derail the radical Islamification of the entire Islamic world.

	06-07-2003 21:48									#65
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love your country, hate your government... same sh1t different day

	06-07-2003 21:53									#66
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quote: They hate it for it's moral depravity, which overlaps freedom to some extent.

And the West despises Sharia culture for the same reason. One coin, two sides, their culture is as valid as ours, lets not get into "my culture is the best because...", as the reasons used there are only to back up our position, have no hold on the other.

	06-07-2003 22:02									#67
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"Most Americans are dumb or ignorant."

The vast majority of Europeans are unsubtle buffallo.

	06-07-2003 22:03									#68
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You did read the sentences after that didn't you?

	06-07-2003 22:03									#69
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 The vast majority of Europeans are unsubtle buffallo.

Sorry, no buffaloes here
(mind you, no buffaloes in the US too )

	06-07-2003 22:15									#70
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If we as Americans are ignorant to the 'real' attitudes of the Arabs or I think the 3rd world altogether it's a result of media 'arguements from ignorance and for ignorance' up to the point that indifference sets in.
IMO there's too much hype too little fact which people base decisions to act or not on.

	06-07-2003 22:27									#71
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AMERICA ROXORZ EVERYONES SUXORZ!!



And yes most Americans know when we **** up. There are very, very few people who think Vietnam was a good idea . It's an interesting mix in the US though, patriotism coupled with a distrust of government. One makes you more favorable to the government, the other not so much. We all think our politicians are crooks, but love the system.

	06-07-2003 22:28									#72
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mind you, no buffaloes in the US too"

Sure there are.

	06-07-2003 22:32									#73
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 "Most Americans are dumb or ignorant." The vast majority of Europeans are unsubtle buffallo.

I´m really angry ´bout that "unsubtle"

	06-07-2003 22:34									#74
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Indeed, he should have called us "oversophisticated buffalos" at least.

	06-07-2003 22:35									#75
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Re American ignorance, I think it's less than most places. On average, Americans go to lots more school than most others. Combined with the fact that the US is rather large, the US produces a high proportion of the thought that goes into the creation and perpetuatoin of the modern world model.

Re American stupidity, I guess we're about average. But in my opinion, stupidity is much less prevalent than many make it out. Otherwise, democracy would never survive. The vast majority of people know their own interests, if nothing else.

Last edited by DanS on 06-07-2003 at 22:43

	06-07-2003 22:38									#76
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DanS- I think the ignorance has more to do with the inaccurate, sensationalist media, rather than schooling. And speaking of schooling, America doesn't exactly lead the way.

	06-07-2003 22:39									#77
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Sava: Americans have access to a large number of news sources. Many are of very high quality too. If you can't find it on TV or radio, you can always find it on the internet.

	06-07-2003 22:44									#78
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quote: Americans have access to a large number of news sources.

I have access to gold... it's just a question of finding it. The big media giants dominate the marketplace. Most average Americans don't have time to search on the internet for independent sources. They rely on radio and 30 second news bites. Viacom - Disney - FauxNews - Tribune NewsCorp are the primary sources of news... none of which are terribly reliable.

	06-07-2003 22:45									#79
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Your forgot AOL/Time Warner .

	06-07-2003 22:48									#80
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quote: Your forgot AOL/Time Warner

yeah... it's hard to keep track of all the mergers and stuff. Basically... the vast majority of mainstream news in America is traced up the corporate ladder to about 5 people. And that's a bad thing.

	06-07-2003 22:59									#81
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Yeah, but those 5 people give two shits what their companies are broadcasting as long as it means ratings and money.

	06-07-2003 22:59									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor It would indeed be pretty arrogant to think France is the best country in the world. It is quite a good country whose values are mostly good (though tainted), and whose quality of life is pretty high too. But to think that we are more free than the Dutch, more well-off than the Swiss, more cultured than the Italians etc. in a whole sure makes arrogant. It would be even more arrogant to expect foreign people to feel France is the greatest country in the world. I have yet to meet someone who does so.

if you don't think france is the best country, why do you live there?

Jon Miller

	06-07-2003 23:00									#83
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quote: Yeah, but those 5 people give two shits what their companies are broadcasting as long as it means ratings and money.

exactly my point... to them, profits and ratings are more important than accurate news.

	06-07-2003 23:03									#84
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quote: exactly my point... to them, profits and ratings are more important than accurate news.

Well, duh!! They are in it to make money.

The real fault lies then with the producers of the shows (much lower down the chain). I bet MSNBC would have the same amount (if not more viewers) if it went for more hard-hitting accurate news instead of bouncing around the political spectrum trying to find to find it's 'niche'.

Then again it doesn't do too bad of a job.

	06-07-2003 23:05									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller if you don't think france is the best country, why do you live there?

Well, because I was raised there, master the language, have all my friends, family and roots ?

Besides, I'm living in Germany this year, for my studies.

	06-07-2003 23:17									#86
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"You did read the sentences after that didn't you?"

Yeah, I did. And I disagreed with them, too.

	06-07-2003 23:22									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Well, because I was raised there, master the language, have all my friends, family and roots ? Besides, I'm living in Germany this year, for my studies.

so you would be happier somewhere else if you put down a liitle effort (And roots?)

than why not do so, you would be surprised at how much you get settled in a place after one year

also, if you come to america you can master the english language

Jon Miller

	06-07-2003 23:40									#88
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quote: Originally posted by elijah And the West despises Sharia culture for the same reason. One coin, two sides, their culture is as valid as ours, lets not get into "my culture is the best because...", as the reasons used there are only to back up our position, have no hold on the other.

Move to Saudi Arabia, will you?

	06-07-2003 23:47									#89
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So what is my opinion of my own country?

I sometimes think that the United States is behind other Western nations when it comes to equality and liberty for all of its law abiding citizens. Canada, Netherlands, Australia, United Kingdom, Germany, and others seem to be making more progress in equality than the United States.

But, recently, the decision of the Supreme Court, and a Democratic candidate who is openly for equal rights regardless of sexual orientation (Howard Dean) has raised my hopes.

But then, we have a wacko in the House of Representatives, who would like to deny people equal rights.

	07-07-2003 00:14									#90
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America! One of the most free countries in the world, proud champion of economic freedom as the other western nations descend into social democracy. A holdout of the Christian religion, as much of the west descends into agnosticism. America, with her wonderful foreign policy which continues to act as a force of justice in this world! No place in the world I'd rather be.


*dons flame-retardant suit*