08-07-2003 19:15									#31
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Yep, save a couple that are demanded.

Which is why I was surprised to see you say that you upped the lux every now and then. I'll pump up the tax and lower the science if I need to delay completing research a turn in order to have the caravans ready to rush the wonder, but I have never upped the lux in despo or mon.

	08-07-2003 20:03									#32
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I've never pushed Lux over 0% in Despot or mon.

	08-07-2003 20:08									#33
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I utilize a strat where I have more than 0% lux in mon. Sometimes I will celebrate my Cap while in Mon so as to get the trade bonus. With library routes and collossus I can get good science while keeping the happiness and production benefits of monarchy in the rest of my cities. Oft time by doing this I can get better science with lux at 30% and science at 60% and Tax 10% than I can with Science at 70% and Lux at 0%

	08-07-2003 20:19									#34
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But you then have to calculate the money difference between tax of 10% and 30%. The extra money could be buying up caravans that when delivered could exceed the difference in science that your getting the other way.

But your method is something to consider. I'm sure there are a few circumstances where it makes sense and I'll keep an eye open for them. But usually If I have collossus and a library in my cap, I'm already in republic.

	08-07-2003 20:22									#35
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In the dark days before Apolyton I used to get HG and Colossus in my cap in SP and celebrate in Monarchy for a while whilst expanding. In retrospect I delayed republic too long back then, but the strat can be tweaked to be viable.

	08-07-2003 20:25									#36
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If you have HG and are smaller than size 7, you don't need to up lux to celebrate.

	09-07-2003 02:14									#37
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quote: Originally posted by rah If you have HG and are smaller than size 7, you don't need to up lux to celebrate.

That all depends on your citycount, not always true.

	09-07-2003 02:54									#38
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I was thinking early in the game before you'd hit that problem, but yes, you're correct.

	09-07-2003 03:00									#39
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

How many city's do you guys have on avarage in 2x1x deity when buildgin an early wonder btw? And what year does this gets build usualy?

	09-07-2003 10:06									#40
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I tend to ratchet up or down turn by turn between min and max luxuries until I find a level that optimises growth. The comfort level seems to vary for every civ for reasons that aren't obvious.

For example in one current game I have a capital that won't celebrate at any level, which is driving me nuts!

	09-07-2003 11:27									#41
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HG any later than 2200 is not good....sometimes we see it around 2700 if someone is quick....

depends on who builds it... the variables in civ can be legendary

	09-07-2003 12:22									#42
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Anyone ever worked out why some cities simply won't celebrate? They all do in the end but sometimes you get a major city that just sits there doing nothing no matter what you do.

	09-07-2003 18:18									#43
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There's the even-odd pop pattern. The city will celebrate with an even number but when it grows to an odd number then stops, and when it goes back to an even number it celebrates again.

	10-07-2003 02:46									#44
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yup the dreaded even odd pattern, usually fixed by routes/markets....and the right mix of luxuries..but before you have them, its best to opt for growth or a food caravan

	10-07-2003 05:36									#45
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever yup the dreaded even odd pattern, usually fixed by routes/markets....and the right mix of luxuries..but before you have them

The even-odd patern in deity is caused by the fact that only CitySize*2 luxuries work. So tell me how you pass odd sizes without HG or Black Hat bug (you must have more than 16 cities in Republic).
Routes and markets can't fix that.

This is another reason why deity is not good for MP. If you want to celebrate you have to manage many cities (I hate it even in SP) or to have HG.

	10-07-2003 07:52									#46
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ironically, with markets and routes and distance from capital, you can raise lux to off set this....

granted it doesn't work for all cities....but believe me when i tell you it can be done.

I have played 1000's of games, and still get frustrated by the pattern, but then magically overcome it as infastructure and routes hit my empire, along with experimenting with the lux bar.

but to be perfectly honest...i cannot explain it in laymans terms..and yes, 90% of the time i have well over 16 ciites and dont' have a happy wonder.

	10-07-2003 10:47									#47
	Got spare money?

Early Rep, no trade routes, no Wonders, 6-8 cities with Temples and Mysticism I go 50% Lux then creep it up to 80% when all cities reach Size 7 at the same time. Then I cut back to 50% (see Trev's post)...

	10-07-2003 10:52									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Anyone ever worked out why some cities simply won't celebrate? They all do in the end but sometimes you get a major city that just sits there doing nothing no matter what you do.

With less cities the even/odd is not a problem. 6 cities in early Rep that are not too far apart will all celebrate.

I once had a Cap on the edge of an empire which was all West of the Cap and it wouldn't celebrate until it hit size 4.

	10-07-2003 17:26									#49
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By the time I choose to celebrate I'm usually up to 16-20 cities. It can be managed. And by then, there's more than enough time in between your turns to do it and not slow anybody else down.

	10-07-2003 18:56									#50
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

yup i agree...unless i have an early HG (rarely) and i am beelining or the huts are sending me in Rep direction, i stay in mon for quite awhile in our x2 games....

sometimes i sneak into republic

	10-07-2003 18:58									#51
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If I find myself isolated, I'll go for REP earlier. Otherwise I'm researching a few war techs.

	10-07-2003 19:04									#52
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yes, or if i get pinned and have good land,, i may forgo sea exspansion and go for repub too

	10-07-2003 19:07									#53
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I also may go earlier if I got aced on a few early wonders and have extra caravans just lying around. I may drop in for a 8 turns to do a bit quick celebrating and deliver the caravans.

	10-07-2003 19:11									#54
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yes.... ahieving a few larger cities usually keeeps the same tax rate , even if it cost more luxuries afterwards to do it.

the caravan payoff is a smart move.....especialy if demanded

	10-07-2003 19:13									#55
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Yes, but it takes real discipline to say, only 8 turns then back to monarchy. I always seem to want to squeeze a few more turns for a little extra celebrating and a few extra caravans. And then a few more,...............

	10-07-2003 20:07									#56
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Just make sure your city's are celebrating the turn you deliver the caravans, you'll have about the same payoff as you have in rep.

	10-07-2003 20:35									#57
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ATAWA:, were talking about the wltcd growth part.... the caravan part is obvious......but you don't get the growth if you celebrate in mon

	10-07-2003 20:56									#58
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settle down war, he was only trying to help

	10-07-2003 21:41									#59
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eh? i was only making sure he knew i was talking to him.... wasn't giving him crap..just explaining.... his take on monarchy is a wise one for caravan delivery if your not in republic

	10-07-2003 22:30									#60
	Inflate your Upload Space

But even if you want to celebrate in Mono, the higher lux rate is impacting your sci and tax rate. So it may not wash exactly.