08-07-2003 21:36									#1
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How many more...?

quote: A gunman has shot several people at the Lockheed Martin plant in Mississippi, killing five before turning the gun on himself. The shootings happened on Tuesday when an employee at the aircraft factory in Meridian opened fire on colleagues with a shotgun and a semi-automatic rifle. The BBC's Nick Bryant said the local sheriff's department confirmed six were killed, including the gunman. At least eight others were wounded in the shooting spree. Our correspondent said employees at the factory had raised concerns about the gunman with their managers, complaining that he seemed mentally disturbed. But the reason behind this attack is not yet clear. Officials at the plant declined to comment. The plant employs 130 people and builds structural subassemblies for the C-130J Hercules transport plane and the F-22 Raptor fighter-bomber.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3055786.stm

	08-07-2003 21:41									#2
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Your point?

	08-07-2003 21:43									#3
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There was an incident yesterday where a NJ teenager was arrested and suspected of plotting a shooting spree. He had an arsenal of weapons... all legally bought by his father.

	08-07-2003 21:44									#4
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Sava, correct, except there were 3 teenagers. They wanted to do it Matrix style. But fortunately got caught before starting firing.

	08-07-2003 21:54									#5
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Chris Rock had the right idea. Forget gun control. Instead tax bullets until they cost $1000 each. At least the poorer crazies and students would be stopped.

	08-07-2003 21:57									#6
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quote: Chris Rock had the right idea. Forget gun control. Instead tax bullets until they cost $1000 each. At least the poorer crazies and student would be stopped.

I think the Founding Father's had the right idea... specifically mentioning that we have the freedom to have armed, regulated militias, not rampant, unregulated private ownership of guns.

	08-07-2003 22:00									#7
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gunkulator, except that it was $5000 per bullet .

DAMN I feel smart today

	08-07-2003 22:02									#8
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Guns don't kill people, people who can get guns at the local 7-11 kill people.

	08-07-2003 22:04									#9
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quote: specifically mentioning that we have the freedom to have armed, regulated militias, not rampant, unregulated private ownership of guns.

Seeing that militia meant (and still means) all able-bodied males from 18-45, I think your reading of the Amendment is incorrect.

--

Shootings happen... it is no reason to take away our liberty by banning one more thing. We already ban enough.

	08-07-2003 22:08									#10
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Agathon, Drugs don't kill people. People who use drugs kills themselves, or greedy dealers who cut the stuff with unhealthy substances .

	08-07-2003 22:10									#11
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quote: Shootings happen...

Because there are more guns than people... It's easier to get a gun than a job in this country.

quote: it is no reason to take away our liberty by banning one more thing. We already ban enough.

untrained civilians should not be allowed to own guns... simple enough. I'm sorry, but I'm 18-45 and I'm not a member of any militia. If people want guns, they should have to go through licensing procedures. We do it for cars, why not guns? We register cars... why not guns? There are some weapons that should not be for civilian use. Plain and simple. This includes, but is not limited to:

assault weapons
sub-machine guns
semi automatic rifles with more than 6 rounds per magazine

Hunting rifles, shotguns, and pistols should only be legal for people who have completed the registration process.

	08-07-2003 22:12									#12
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Sava: I think they should also have other restrictions such as rifle safety courses, manditory background checks, lockable storage for those with unliscensed residents living with them, and maybe even a tracking system for ammo purchasing... I am a supporter of the NRA, but am also for gun control...

	08-07-2003 22:13									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Agathon, Drugs don't kill people. People who use drugs kills themselves, or greedy dealers who cut the stuff with unhealthy substances .

Since when can you buy crack at Wal-Mart?

	08-07-2003 22:15									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Because there are more guns than people... It's easier to get a gun than a job in this country. untrained civilians should not be allowed to own guns... simple enough. I'm sorry, but I'm 18-45 and I'm not a member of any militia. If people want guns, they should have to go through licensing procedures. We do it for cars, why not guns? We register cars... why not guns? There are some weapons that should not be for civilian use. Plain and simple. This includes, but is not limited to: assault weapons sub-machine guns semi automatic rifles with more than 6 rounds per magazine Hunting rifles, shotguns, and pistols should only be legal for people who have completed the registration process.

Isn't that already the case. Before you can hunt in my state you have to take a hunters safety course. Before you buy any kind of weapon in my state you have a waiting period (sometimes the checks are instant but usually not). And the last time I checked a person could not own certain types of weapons. So what exactly do you want different?

edit. not sure about pawn shops and gun shows. Perhaps there could be more legislation on those fronts but the only thing else the state can do is take them away period.

	08-07-2003 22:15									#15
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Agathon, Well, at the parking lot?

	08-07-2003 22:15									#16
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quote: It's easier to get a gun than a job in this country.

Ever tried to get a gun?

quote: untrained civilians should not be allowed to own guns

What does 'untrained' mean?

quote: Hunting rifles, shotguns, and pistols should only be legal for people who have completed the registration process.

How is 'registration' the same as training?

And btw, if you licensed and registered ever gun and gun owner, you'd still have rampant ownership of guns. And, of course, this wouldn't stop kids who steal them from their fathers. So what does it actually accomplish? I think it'd be nice to go in an licence and register all guns, I'm just blanching at the immense cost of all that, and for how much gain?

	08-07-2003 22:16									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Agathon, Well, at the parking lot?

Touche.

	08-07-2003 22:16									#18
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quote: Since when can you buy crack at Wal-Mart?

You should

	08-07-2003 22:18									#19
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I have no problem with the general ownership of hunting rifles or shotguns: Very little cirme is commited by people who won guns in the back woods. Autmoatic weapons are certainly problematic and should be highly, highly regulated. BUt to me handguns are the most trouble: they are the ones most commonly used for crimes, and if the idea is to fight of "the man" when the black helicopters come to take your children away, most handguns are the least effective firearms you can have to stand up to "him" (or anyone armed with something much bigger).

	08-07-2003 22:18									#20
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quote: I think it'd be nice to go in an licence and register all guns, I'm just blanching at the immense cost of all that, and for how much gain?

You are looking at it the wrong way; not "gain" but lack of loss.

	08-07-2003 22:20									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Since when can you buy crack at Wal-Mart?

It's over by the pepermints.

	08-07-2003 22:20									#22
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Agathon, but I know my analogy is invalid. So.. and personally I'm undecided with the drug and legality thing anyway, as with gun control if it's good or not... just post whoring.

	08-07-2003 22:21									#23
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If the point is to have a militia, should not all guns be registered? That wy you know who has what and can create the units more quickly. IIRC in Switzerland people can have military machineguns in thier house, becuase they are expected to form up militias in time of national emergency, and I would think most of them are licensed so that the authorities know who has what.

	08-07-2003 22:21									#24
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How much 'lack of loss' then .

I support licensing and registration... as long as it ain't that expensive... but I don't see how it wouldn't. Just getting all that information and transfering it to a central database, then printing up licenses, and all that paperwork, uck. And I don't think it'd cut down that much on anything until 'smart gun' technology comes into play.

	08-07-2003 22:23									#25
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I have no problem with the general ownership of hunting rifles or shotguns: Very little cirme is commited by people who won guns in the back woods. Autmoatic weapons are certainly problematic and should be highly, highly regulated. BUt to me handguns are the most trouble: they are the ones most commonly used for crimes, and if the idea is to fight of "the man" when the black helicopters come to take your children away, most handguns are the least effective firearms you can have to stand up to "him" (or anyone armed with something much bigger).

Handguns are made for killing people pure and simple. I have no problem with them being strictly regulated.

Looks like we agree on this issue.

	08-07-2003 22:25									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka ... just post whoring.

Never have guessed.

	08-07-2003 22:26									#27
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The only "smart gun" technology I want to see is advances in non-lethal weaponry. While noone would deny you your right to defend yourself, there's no reason at all why you need a right to kill another human being. Afterall, it's hard to claim impartial justice when one man acts as sheriff, judge, jury and executioner all in the blink of an eye.

	08-07-2003 22:28									#28
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quote: there's no reason at all why you need a right to kill another human being.

If the human being is trying to kill you. I'm not sure a small woman would be able to defeat a big burglar male who was threatening her with death too easily.

	08-07-2003 22:30									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Handguns are made for killing people pure and simple. I have no problem with them being strictly regulated.

Ever fired a proper target pistol? You'd be hard put to use one of those in a gunfight.

I can't see what the fuss is all about. We've had a gun licensing scheme in New Zealand for as long as anyone can remember. What happens is that you apply to the police and they ask your family and friends what they think about you owning a gun. If no one produces evidence that you are a nutter you get a license. You are expected to be paranoid about gun safety (and all the gun owners I have met are), but the fact is that you are basically left alone unless you do something stupid.

There's a lot for gun owners in this. They get left alone by the government, they are treated with respect, gun safety is increased due to police support for gun clubs and storage requirements and they aren't regarded as a social menace.

	08-07-2003 22:35									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: there's no reason at all why you need a right to kill another human being. If the human being is trying to kill you. I'm not sure a small woman would be able to defeat a big burglar male who was threatening her with death too easily.

Read the whole post. I'm not arguing against weaponry as a physical equalizer. I'm arguing against that equalization meaning death. Afterall, who's to say your small woman is not the party at fault? Answer: noone if she's the only survivor of an attack.