11-07-2003 11:55									#31
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you can have a plot heavy campaign with different characters coming in and out

I admit it is more work for the GMs though

Jon Miller

	11-07-2003 11:57									#32
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22 points is extremely weak:

28 points is considered weak, standard for low end campaigns.

30-32 standard.

36 high-powered.

40 I've seen used for ridiculous settings.

edit: Personal prefference somewhere between 28-32.

	11-07-2003 12:32									#33
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Oh, I almost forgot: For UR and others without access to 3rd edition books, check out
http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html

Jon Miller: No, it's less work for the GM. If you don't know what players are coming, then you can throw interesting villains at the party, and maybe tough puzzles, but they can't involve the party members personally. If the heir to the throne isn't here today in the party, why exactly are we storming the usurper's castle?

As a better example. I was in a 2nd edition Forgotten Realms campaign. We had one villain (whom we called "Black Mage" because he was a mage who wore black robes- don't laugh, Victor) who showed a particular interest in my character, constantly almost killing me. As it turned out, my character didn't know this, but his childhood friend Ariel when growing up in Deepingdale ended up going on to become the new goddess of Magic in the Time of Troubles. Black Mage was really an avatar of Shar, the goddess of secrets, who knew who the goddess of Magic was as a mortal and was trying to extort power from her- or at least stop her from interfering with her plans- by threatening to kill my character. If "Ariel" (or Mystra, as she changed her name to when becoming a goddess) didn't let Shar have her way, then my character would meet a painful demise.

Now, what happens if my character magically dissapears from the party, with no explanation? All of the sudden, Black Mage interfering with us makes no sesne. And perhaps the planned adventure is shot.

Or perhaps as a simpler example, some quests are simply tied to a character. My character & my roommate's character were both sent to recover an artifact sword of Tempus at the beginning of the game, and we ended up taking on the other party members for various other reasons. But if both of us "dissapeared" one day, what's to keep everyone else searching for the sword? Sure, they were interested, but they weren't charged with the quest or anything. They might wonder why they aren't doing something more productive.

Last edited by SnowFire on 11-07-2003 at 12:39

	11-07-2003 13:43									#34
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Hello

I would like to be involved. I'm another one of those damn D&D virgins however.

	11-07-2003 13:47									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I have a ton of E-books JOn Miller

PDF?

	11-07-2003 13:51									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller you start with between 22-32 points Jon Miller

That's just crappy. Can use 2x the amount easily

60 points gives you one 18, two 16's, and 3 15's. You probably don't need 15 charisma unless you want a paladin or monk, and you probably can live with an 11 strength is you are some sort of spell caster.

This hasn't touched anything over 18.

	11-07-2003 14:07									#37
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I'm another D&D virgin who's interested in playing. I'm not sure if I'll have the time to seriously contribute, though.

It seems like you already have far too many players and not enough DMs, anyway.

	11-07-2003 14:19									#38
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I could be a referee. Since I don't know the 3rd edition rules I'd make my own up as I go along

	11-07-2003 14:25									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That's just crappy. Can use 2x the amount easily 60 points gives you one 18, two 16's, and 3 15's. You probably don't need 15 charisma unless you want a paladin or monk, and you probably can live with an 11 strength is you are some sort of spell caster. This hasn't touched anything over 18.

a standard human staring out usually only has one 15-17, and a few 13-15s and the rest are 10-12ish. If a character has multiple 18s, it kinda gets rediculous. Thats a conan's strength with a gandolf's wisdom and red sonja's charisma all in one person...

	11-07-2003 14:26									#40
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I am shocked at the number of DnD virgins that are expressing interest... usuaully people who have waited so long, did so because of the nerdy stigma and never care to try it. but you all seem so open, suprises me yall havent tried it before

	11-07-2003 15:26									#41
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The web brings out the nerd in all of us.

*** Donegeal readjusts his glasses. ***

I am by no accounts a D&D virgin. Lost that stigma at age 8 or 9.

	11-07-2003 16:32									#42
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Yes, everyone please take in account that I am an almost-virgin in DnD.

	11-07-2003 18:16									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I could be a referee. Since I don't know the 3rd edition rules I'd make my own up as I go along

No rules-lawyering please - it can kill a game very quickly.

As I said in the original thread, my experience is with 3rd Edition. I believe we should use 3E because it is alot easier for AD&D2E people to play 3E than the other way around (damn THACO ), also, the DnD virgins will have an easier time. 3.5E is not official yet, too new, and only minor tweaks anyways. With the 3.5 books coming out, our virgins might be able to find good deals on 3E books, if they're enjoying themselves and are interested.

Personally, I like a good mix of story, combat, and puzzling. Our DM might want to keep in mind, however, that virgins usually like combat the most, can be hestitant to roleplay, and lack the experience for complex puzzling.

I agree with letting the DM decide on character generation. I used all the methods before. Point buy is great for rich stories because everyone is relatively even, and you have to learn how to complement each other. Rolling and high point buy are good for dungeon hacks (combat heavy) campaigns.

I once played a character in a high-point buy (44, iirc) tromp through an updated (for 3E) Tomb of Horrors. Our stats may have helped us survive a couple of scrapes, but it didn't matter in the end - we all died. (Note to newbies - everyone dies in Tomb of Horrors. The DM isn't doing his job right if they don't. )

	11-07-2003 18:27									#44
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Well, I up again
List of players is updated.

As soon as I get a reply from Ming as to our new home, I'll start the poll for GM/DM. Right now, second edition is looking pretty good. Anyone want to vote on that?

	11-07-2003 18:33									#45
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Added dice rolling site. Got a better one? Share it!

	11-07-2003 18:37									#46
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Oh, yeah. And I had this great idea at about 12.30 am. We could call it A D&D. Get it? Apolyton D&D? hehehe. Note to self: don't try to think after 11.30 pm.

	11-07-2003 18:38									#47
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quote: Oh, yeah. And I had this great idea at about 12.30 am. We could call it A D&D. Get it? Apolyton D&D? hehehe. Note to self: don't try to think after 11.30 pm.

That appeals to me.

	11-07-2003 18:41									#48
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My vote is for 3E. I don't know 2E rules at all really.

	11-07-2003 18:48									#49
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I want to participate as a player. Expirienced in ADnD& DnD 3rd. edition, but my English sucks. So don't suspect a lot of roleplaying from me.

	11-07-2003 18:53									#50
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Ok, I guess we'll have to vote. Give me a couple minutes.

Choices will probably be:
1st ED
2nd ED
3rd ED
3.5th ED

2nd was suggested because it's publicly available.

	11-07-2003 19:54									#51
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I'd say 2nd with 3rd edition modifications as defined by the DM... Multi-class, race restrictions of 3rd would be nice...

quote: standard human staring out usually only has one 15-17, and a few 13-15s and the rest are 10-12ish

22-32 points doesn't yield that though...

	11-07-2003 20:24									#52
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you can get PDFs of 3rd from me

and 30 points yields 16, 18, 8, 8, 10, 10 (and you should have a low score or two if you have an 18) or 16, 14, 14, 12, 10, 10

I am GMing now snowfire and all I know is that nothing is harder on me than having a session where people don't show

Jon Miller

	11-07-2003 20:25									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I'd say 2nd with 3rd edition modifications as defined by the DM... Multi-class, race restrictions of 3rd would be nice... 22-32 points doesn't yield that though...

but the rest of third is nice als

and 30 points does end up with one 15-17, two 13-15, and three 10-12

Jon Miller

	11-07-2003 20:34									#54
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hey i'd like to play, but it's been a while and i'm not too familiar with the rules anymore

	11-07-2003 20:35									#55
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quote: 9 - 1 10-2 11-3 12-4 13-5 14-6 15-8 16-10 17-13 18-16

Sorry, missed this. I am fine with 30 points. Also, 3rd Ed. you get to add stats which is a nice addition.

	11-07-2003 20:38									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That's just crappy. Can use 2x the amount easily 60 points gives you one 18, two 16's, and 3 15's. You probably don't need 15 charisma unless you want a paladin or monk, and you probably can live with an 11 strength is you are some sort of spell caster. This hasn't touched anything over 18.

in 3rd you can't go over 18 unless you have a different race

Jon Miller

	11-07-2003 21:23									#57
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I also like 3rd. The big new thing in 3.5 that actually improves low level game play is the fact they made the ranger a class you might want to play, as opposed to a class that you just get one level of to be able to dual wield weapons easily. Also ambidexterity and TWF became one feat so that fighting with two weapons is easier. (As a player, those are the main changes I like, though I'd probably try something different, since all my characters seem to have rogue levels and two weapons.)

As far as a campaign is concerned, my idea would involve the party being recruited to perform certain tasks (or quests if you prefer) by some influential NPC or possibly some faction. The giver of tasks would not care much whom completed the task and in what manner, allowing for substitution of PCs throughout the adventure (though some sidequests may involve specific members of the party, though in most cases these would pop up during a session and the specific PC would be the member of a specific class present at a given time).

	11-07-2003 21:24									#58
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Still waiting for reply from Ming... and I know he's around
Hopefully we can start voting tommorow.

	11-07-2003 21:26									#59
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why don't we vote today?

a lot of people have sounded off, if you haven't please do so

Jon Miller

	11-07-2003 21:27									#60
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The only real experience I have is 3rd edition (Baldur's Gate excluded), so that will by my vote.