12-07-2003 02:28									#1
	Prevelant problems within gay society? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

First off -- homophobes or ignorant dunces need not apply to this thread with their usual red herrings, slippery slope arguments, hysteria, holier-than-thou moralizing, etc, etc.

Now, I have some questions for other gay and bisexual Apolytoners -- and if there are any heterosexuals who think they might have insight, share them.

There are some gays who claim that our culture is stuck in this perpetual adolescence attitude -- what exactly do they mean, anyway when they make this claim?

Plus, I have become more aware of the hatred that elderly gays suffer from other gays -- woud we ourselves like to grow old someday, if this bigotry remains within our minority group?

And I realize the drug use and alcoholism is partly due to the stress we face in living in a heterosexist, homophobic society, but I'm hoping that sooner or later, these victims find better, healthier ways to deal with whatever problems they have.

And this issue of monogamy versus open relationships -- to me, it seems to be a more prevelant issue among us homosexuals than heterosexuals. I guess one could partly blame the heterosexist society that discourages us from forming stable, productive relationships. But I have met, and do know gays who have monogamous relationships -- but they're in the minority of the minority. Maybe open relationships are not a problem anyway??

Again, if there are hetero Apolytoners who would like to express a decent opinion or ask a decent question, as somone looking from the outside, go ahead.
But since I'm asking for decency and respect, this excludes the homophobes from participating (you know who you are).

	12-07-2003 02:43									#2
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Personally I would think that....population growth would be among the largest problems in such a society. Biologically, the whole propogation-of-the-species thing is a bit....tough?

-=Vel=-
(and I don't say that with the least bit of disrespect, btw....it's just...the first thing that jumps out at me, looking in from the outside)

	12-07-2003 02:46									#3
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Prevelant problems within gay society?

- Cocaine
- AIDS
- Versace











Talk about prevelant problems within STRAIGHT society, however... and it gets uglier!

	12-07-2003 02:58									#4
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Club thread.

	12-07-2003 03:01									#5
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Zylka - it's Crystal Meth now, get with the times

	12-07-2003 03:03									#6
	Re: Prevelant problems within gay society? Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by MrFun There are some gays who claim that our culture is stuck in this perpetual adolescence attitude -- what exactly do they mean, anyway when they make this claim?

"Rebel, rebel, rebel"
It doesn't apply so much these days, but in the 60s, 70s, and up to a certain point in the 80s (before AIDS) many gays "rebeled": sex sex sex, shunning marriage, etc.

I was reading an interesting article by an old gay man about how he's "ashamed" how most gays are now, how they're talking about marriage rather than sex parties...

	12-07-2003 03:04									#7
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Zylka - it's Crystal Meth now, get with the times

"Do the crystal meth, lift you up until you break..."

	12-07-2003 03:06									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Personally I would think that....population growth would be among the largest problems in such a society. Biologically, the whole propogation-of-the-species thing is a bit....tough? -=Vel=- (and I don't say that with the least bit of disrespect, btw....it's just...the first thing that jumps out at me, looking in from the outside)

I didn't take any offense.

First, let's take a percentage of homosexuals among heterosexuals for an example: 5% of world population.
Now, I think that give and take one percent, homosexuals will fluctuate. But for the most part, wouldn't that percentage remain almost stable from one generation to the next?
I really don't think homosexuals will dramatically decrease, simply because there are enough of us born with each generation -- even if many of them remain closeted.

And on a personal level of deciding to become a parent, there are many gays and lesbians who seriously consider having a child of their own -- be that through adoption, surrogation, or other options available. And those children will grow up to be homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual.

	12-07-2003 03:08									#9
	Re: Re: Prevelant problems within gay society? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Asher "Rebel, rebel, rebel" It doesn't apply so much these days, but in the 60s, 70s, and up to a certain point in the 80s (before AIDS) many gays "rebeled": sex sex sex, shunning marriage, etc. I was reading an interesting article by an old gay man about how he's "ashamed" how most gays are now, how they're talking about marriage rather than sex parties...

Yeah -- we're such party poopers now.

	12-07-2003 03:31									#10
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I don't think it's a "perpetual adolescent" attitude so much as an "exclusively male" attitude. Among straight males in non-sexual situations, men will be boys...

Hell, I think we'd all like to be adolescent again, at times.

	12-07-2003 03:33									#11
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Meth? OUCH

That's like going from platinum to silver... what's exactly is going on in the gay camp to bring such tragedy, guys???

	12-07-2003 03:36									#12
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too unstable (will be helped with gay marriage) and the like

Jon Miller

	12-07-2003 03:38									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Personally I would think that....population growth would be among the largest problems in such a society. Biologically, the whole propogation-of-the-species thing is a bit....tough? -=Vel=- (and I don't say that with the least bit of disrespect, btw....it's just...the first thing that jumps out at me, looking in from the outside)

This will make it really easy to find out if homosexuality is inherited or not. If it dies out because of monogamy then it would be hereditary, if it continues, it is a choice or preference.

Or am I full of it?

ACK!

	12-07-2003 03:39									#14
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The problem is, gay people don't necessarily have gay parents.

It's mostly a luck of the draw thing, perhaps with genetic predisposition.

	12-07-2003 03:43									#15
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Glad you didn't think that was homophobic.

The biggest problem I thin gays have is acceptance by heteros. But, I think that a lot if that is fear of what a closet gay expects as opposed to the reality.

I come from a Mormon family, obviously very conservative, I had a cousin that came out, and he was shocked that his being gay was accepted, maybe not liked, but accepted.

ACK!

	12-07-2003 04:02									#16
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Wait a second... so does my little brother in the room next door have methamphetamines waiting for my mucous membraines? Should I start tearing apart the dry wall of his room in hopes of stumbling upon the lost Dutchman's mine?!?!

HELLPPP

	12-07-2003 04:06									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Wait a second... so does my little brother in the room next door have methamphetamines waiting for my mucous membraines? Should I start tearing apart the dry wall of his room in hopes of stumbling upon the lost Dutchman's mine?!?! HELLPPP

Or you could just abuse solvents - it's cheaper and there's the added kick of wondering if you'll die

	12-07-2003 04:07									#18
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Que bonita!!!

	12-07-2003 04:09									#19
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G'wan - that deoderant spray is just in the other roooooom ....

	12-07-2003 04:45									#20
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As I'm active in NUS I hear quite a lot of gossip from the "liberation" campaigns... it seems heterophobia and (particularly, and more disturbingly) biphobia are quite prevalent. Personally, I'd like to see an end to terms like the "gay community"; we're all people after all, and whilst it's completely understandable that LGB people stick together, at the end of the day developing a "bunker mentality" helps no-one.

	12-07-2003 04:55									#21
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I'm on the committee of the Swansea Uni LGB and I had a lot of trouble trying to push the idea that we should make it clear straight people are allowed to come too.

	12-07-2003 05:04									#22
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon I'm on the committee of the Swansea Uni LGB and I had a lot of trouble trying to push the idea that we should make it clear straight people are allowed to come too.

The problem there is that many straight men think that they must obviously be irresistable to gay men, as such they don't want the attention that would come with going to a LGB meet.

	12-07-2003 05:10									#23
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True, though we actually have straight people come - and of course it's going to be mainly straight girls, I just thought it'd be good if we subtly let people know anyone is allowed to come in our posters. More people are likely to come if they know they're allowed to bring their straight friends.

	12-07-2003 05:22									#24
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Jon,

quote: I'm on the committee of the Swansea Uni LGB and I had a lot of trouble trying to push the idea that we should make it clear straight people are allowed to come too.

The York LGB Committee has been all-but-ostracised by the NUS LGB Campaign for this very reason; the YUSU LGB Campaigns Committee has, since last year, had provision for one "open place" (ie, non self-defining). This appears to be heresy amongst the powers-that-be at NUS LGB.

Fortunately I hear that there's been a slight swing towards the centre after LGB Conference this year; I can't say I'm disappointed to see the back of extremist bigot Daniel Murphy.

Iain (NUS Higher Education National Committee)

	12-07-2003 05:44									#25
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The problem with LGBs are that they are sometimes hijacked by the politically ignorant and closed-minded (and either v camp or v butch, depending on their gender).

	12-07-2003 07:10									#26
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why do young gays hate older gays?

i'm with tuberski. the biggest issue will be acceptance by society. most liberals and moderates are probably more than willing to accept it, but it's the very vocal christian conservatives that will make the most noise.

i believe that once homosexuality is completely accepted by the mainstream, that monogamous relationships will increase in frequency. less fear of discovery/reprisals --> more trust --> stronger relationships --> monogamous relationships.

	12-07-2003 07:13									#27
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I am wary towards older gay men, mainly because they can be VERY pushy when they're going after you. The other day I was in a pub when this old man started groping my chest - I was just standing chatting to a straight friend of mine.

It's even worse on the internet. 'Hi, I'm 50 and totally out your age range but here's a picture of my ****!'

Ugh, rant over

	12-07-2003 07:17									#28
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Exactly, RJ.

You should see the volume and explicitness of mail I get from 30+ year old men.

It's disturbing...

	12-07-2003 07:36									#29
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quote: i'm with tuberski

congratulations

	12-07-2003 07:50									#30
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sava... c'mere... sava's been naughty... and sava needs his punishment...