14-07-2003 04:56									#211
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In Cambodia's case they just tried to kill most everyone. That's one way to do it.

	14-07-2003 05:59									#212
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quote: It's pointless to show you how economists define economic terms, because you refuse to learn economics.

So far it seems I have a better grasp of the subject than do you . On countless threads you have shown that you can't even grasp the simple concept that Savings = Investment.

quote: Everything is politics to you Imran.

Seeing as we are talking about political systems here, yeah, I think I'd revert to my other B.A., Political Science (as you well know, the other one is in Economics).

I seriously doubt that any Nobel Prize Winning Economist would look at a system with private ownership but a lack of a free market and call it capitalism.

But go ahead, delude yourself if you wish and continue to hold onto the fallacy that freer markets aren't required for capitalism.

Why don't you ask the fair people of Apolyton. Can Capitalism exist without a relatively free market?

	14-07-2003 06:05									#213
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: It's pointless to show you how economists define economic terms, because you refuse to learn economics. So far it seems I have a better grasp of the subject than do you . On countless threads you have shown that you can't even grasp the simple concept that Savings = Investment.

Give it up. I grasp the simple logic of dead economists who didn't know any better. I also understand why it's not true. And that's what seperates us. You insist on blindly following this retarded dogma that we now know to be false by countless historical events called recessions.

	14-07-2003 06:08									#214
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You are too much.

Ok, go ahead Mr. Capitalism doesn't need a free market.

Btw, I bet everyone on this forum (including the Commies) would agree that Hersh.. (Roland) could kick the crap out of you in any economics debate and he follows what you refer to as 'retarded dogma'.

	14-07-2003 06:13									#215
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I think I'd revert to my other B.A., Political Science (as you well know, the other one is in Economics).

You were a double major? I was under the impression that it was just a minor.

	14-07-2003 06:14									#216
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Yep, double major... the minor was in History.

	14-07-2003 06:19									#218
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Heh... are you on ICQ.. or do I have to drag you there .

	14-07-2003 06:26									#219
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Btw, I bet everyone on this forum (including the Commies) would agree that Hersh.. (Roland) could kick the crap out of you in any economics debate and he follows what you refer to as 'retarded dogma'.

No one ever wins the debates, but it's been shown that using policy to increase investment during a recession usually recovers the economy. Hersh would only argue that that would cause a worse recession in the future, but by doing so he would be accepting the claim that savings doesn't equal investment.

	14-07-2003 06:26									#220
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Authoritarian regimes do NOT aims to control all facets of society: many (most) authoritarian regimes are backed by strong traditional power groups, such as the Church, Landowners, Big Business and so on, interest rgoups that would not accept their allies in Government attempting to coopt thier spheres of life. To talitarianism is inherently revolutionary, for to gain control of all aspects of life, it must overthrow or coopt all traditional power groups.

As far as this debate goes, I side with Imran.

	14-07-2003 06:31									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Heh... are you on ICQ..

I am now.

	14-07-2003 06:32									#222
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quote: Originally posted by GePap As far as this debate goes, I side with Imran.

That's fine, and you make a good point. I guess from a communists point of view though it's all the same. Since both right wing authoritarian and totalitarian govts tend to concentrate their undemocratic methods on us.

	14-07-2003 06:42									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'll only read it when Sava reads all of Milton Freedman's political books and Hayek's 'Road to Serfdom' .

That book had better be by Salma Hayek.

	14-07-2003 07:32									#224
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The dictionary defintion of a complex ideology is bound to be crap, just like the definition of marxism or communism are likely to be incomplete. I base my critique on having read some of the seminal works of facism. (It is always fun walking through San Fran> wth Hitler in my bag)

Hitler's not my bag baby, really!

	14-07-2003 07:33									#225
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I have been coming back periodically to see if any interesting posts would be put on here, and I realize that my hoping for that is foolish.

	14-07-2003 07:55									#226
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I find myself agreeing with Irman a lot in this thread.

I only call the Athoritarian Capitalists (speer, Fez, etc.) and the Conservatives (DD, Sloww, etc.) Fascists if they start to tick me off. I agree with Iraman with the distintion between Totalitarianism and Athoritarianism. I DON'T BELEIVE IT!!! I am agreeing with a Libertarian!!!

	14-07-2003 07:58									#227
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Sometimes even che agrees with me (but he always denies it ).

	14-07-2003 08:01									#228
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You are too centrist Imran for there to be much surprise that people frm any spectrum will agree with you at some point or another.

If Che and Speer or Fez begin to agree on something..well, head for the Hils, for that is ruely a sign of the edntimes.

	14-07-2003 08:03									#229
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quote: Originally posted by Odin I find myself agreeing with Irman a lot in this thread. I only call the Athoritarian Capitalists (speer, Fez, etc.) and the Conservatives (DD, Sloww, etc.) Fascists if they start to tick me off. I agree with Iraman with the distintion between Totalitarianism and Athoritarianism. I DON'T BELEIVE IT!!! I am agreeing with a Libertarian!!!

Sloww and MtG threatened to hang me for exercising free speech. That's what I call fascists.

	14-07-2003 08:04									#230
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quote: You are too centrist Imran for there to be much surprise that people frm any spectrum will agree with you at some point or another.

SHHHH!! You'll blow my cover!

	14-07-2003 08:27									#231
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: You are too centrist Imran for there to be much surprise that people frm any spectrum will agree with you at some point or another. SHHHH!! You'll blow my cover!

Too late -- you're exposed.

Now what do you have to say for yourself?

	14-07-2003 08:35									#232
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I have never been a card carrying member of the Communist Party .

Oh wait...

	14-07-2003 08:50									#233
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This is just the beginning of a campaing of Gepapism: all card carrying centrists will be found and expelled from the OT! True OT'ers must never agree with their ideological enemies, who are good for nothing scum! Intelligent debate is the tool of the devil and un-OT! Sensible arguement has no place here!

	14-07-2003 08:54									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Sometimes even che agrees with me (but he always denies it ).

No, that's not true. Sometimes you agree with me.

	14-07-2003 09:22									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander That book had better be by Salma Hayek.

	14-07-2003 17:52									#236
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Let's just agree that how you define fascist is relative to your perspective. The line that Gepap sees between authoritarian and totalitarian attitude is blured from our perspective. The difference is insignificant. Let me tell you why.

Their seemingly percious free market ideology actually means jack **** to an authoritarian capitalist. They will drop it in a heart beat when it suits their needs, because they have two competing ideologies, free market and elitism. The free market ideology is only usefull to them for the purpose of the elitism ideology.

When the market breaks down the authoritarian capitalist scrambles for a new ideology to suit his needs, while the democratic capitalists finally realizes the failure of his ideology and embraces communism. Since the right wing is the minority they have to spread lies and propaganda, and commit evil deads to compete with the superior ideology of democratic communism.

	14-07-2003 19:24									#237
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Oh and btw Hitler was the biggest liar in the history of the world. If you can stand to read his crap that's your perogative, but I object to you saying the fascists hate capitalists because Hitler said so. That is just part of his propaganda.