21-07-2003 22:12									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Sava No... it is irrelevant to the discussion. Humanity has proved time and time again that the political system has little bearing on the level of evil. I've warned the mod's so threadjack at your own risk. I won't respond to your petty squabbling anymore.

It isn't a threadjack at all. We are arguing the future of humanity Sava. Again, if you want to argue alternatives to communism go ahead.

	21-07-2003 22:14									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious It isn't a threadjack at all. We are arguing the future of humanity Sava. Again, if you want to argue alternatives to communism go ahead.

It is just another pointless "BLLAAH COMMIES DIE..." "BLLAAAH CAPITALIST PIGS!" rant... It's my thread and I say stop... if not, I can't be held responsible for what MtG or Ming decide to do to shut you up.

	21-07-2003 22:17									#63
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Hell, Grand Caymens is suppose to really nice. I just don't think all of humanity could fit in there, it aint that big...

Seriously, I don't think that humanity is any worse of off now than any other time. Their always obsticals that make it look like humanity is going crazy and may end up, hypothetically speaking, in the pits of the inferno damnation of all that is good... But they ussually just end up in California...

	21-07-2003 22:18									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Elok Bah. Shades of gray are just what people who need glasses see when they look at a black-and-white checkerboard. The statement that there is no good or evil is just self-assured intellectual vanity used to justify our own moral weakness.

Are most of the punishments included in the Bible moral? Should children be stoned to death for disrespecitng thier parents? Is that moral?

If you believe in the single creator God, good for you..end of debate, since I have nothing more to say to such a person on this issue: ater all, what could i say?

If not: what is evil before man joins the scene? Are any actions of, lets say, animals, evil?

	21-07-2003 22:22									#65
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I believe evil and good alike to be creations of man. They are the product of thought. Animals and predators aren't evil... it's just their nature. It's survival. Other than plant life, living things require other living things as food to survive. Herbivores require plants to live. Plants are living things and herbivores kill them by eating them. That's not inherently evil. The same with a lion or tiger killing a gazelle in order to eat. Evil is the product of a conscious, sentient being commiting an act.

	21-07-2003 22:23									#66
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These threadjackings seem to be becoming more common these days. Sad.

The original question: Is humanity going to hell?

Depends. 1st, one must define what is a determinable factor for going to hell or not. Most religions call this sin.
2nd, you must determine if Sin is irreconcilable with the entity that makes decision number 1.

	21-07-2003 22:23									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Sava It is just another pointless "BLLAAH COMMIES DIE..." "BLLAAAH CAPITALIST PIGS!" rant... It's my thread and I say stop... if not, I can't be held responsible for what MtG or Ming decide to do to shut you up.

Why don't you just say "no communists allowed." Then you and the rest of the capitalists can discuss how ****ed up your own system is and not be bothered with any solutions to the problems.

	21-07-2003 22:24									#68
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I think Kids problem with this question is that he is in Fresno, which is just outside of Hell... Especially these days...

	21-07-2003 22:25									#69
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Yes, but what acts are considered universally evil? There is no single act that all humans at all times could agree were evil, not even the most common tabboos of incest and cannibalism; and people doing 'evil" usually are aware they are doing something considered 'evil' anyway.

	21-07-2003 22:26									#70
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quote: Why don't you just say "no communists allowed." Then you and the rest of the capitalists can discuss how ****ed up your own system is and not be bothered with any solutions to the problems.

Communists can participate in the topic... but I warned both sides to STFU. Go create your own thread if you want to discuss that topic. I'm sick of your victim mentality. Don't give me that "you and the rest of the capitalists crap"... get out of my damn thread if you are going to continue to spam.

	21-07-2003 22:28									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I think Kids problem with this question is that he is in Fresno, which is just outside of Hell... Especially these days...

It's ****ing HOT!

	21-07-2003 22:28									#72
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Yes, but what acts are considered universally evil? There is no single act that all humans at all times could agree were evil, not even the most common tabboos of incest and cannibalism; and people doing 'evil" usually are aware they are doing something considered 'evil' anyway.

Random, cold-blooded murder is universally evil. I agree morality is subjective, but through philosophical discussion, I believe an overwhelming vast majority of acts can be defined and categorized. There are gray areas, but I think the democratic process can lead to compromise.

	21-07-2003 22:31									#73
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100+ for weeks now, eh?

that's why I moved to the bay, at least we sit around 80-90 with only a couple of days ina row, not months in a row... Man, I hated summers in Fresno... Head to the lake! I am going to be going up to Shaver in a few weeks...

--

OT

Evil is something that is done against ones morals, which is subjective. Yet, it is only truly and universally evil (IMO), when the person who comitted the act acted against his own morals.

	21-07-2003 22:34									#74
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quote: Yet, it is only truly and universally evil (IMO), when the person who comitted the act acted against his own morals.

So Hitler wasn't evil? He was acting within the bounds of his morals.

Is it humid in Cali as well? I could stand 100+ temps if it were dry. I loved it in Albequrque when it was 103 with like 12% humidity.

	21-07-2003 22:36									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Japher 100+ for weeks now, eh? that's why I moved to the bay, at least we sit around 80-90 with only a couple of days ina row, not months in a row... Man, I hated summers in Fresno... Head to the lake! I am going to be going up to Shaver in a few weeks...

OFF TOPIC-SAVA DON'T READ.

I went to Cayucus I few weeks back, and I just got back from Yosemite a few days ago. Still when you get back you basically have to stay in the house with the air conditioning these days. I can't wait at least till September with it cools down about 5 degrees. Then I will be able to sit outside in the cooler hours.

	21-07-2003 22:37									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Why don't you just say "no communists allowed." Then you and the rest of the capitalists can discuss how ****ed up your own system is and not be bothered with any solutions to the problems.

The complaints about you are rising... learn how to be civil, or you will get restricted.

And yes... there are enough of the commie vs capitalists threads... there is no need to threadjack another one just to continue the same lame and stale arguments.

	21-07-2003 22:39									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Random, cold-blooded murder is universally evil. I agree morality is subjective, but through philosophical discussion, I believe an overwhelming vast majority of acts can be defined and categorized. There are gray areas, but I think the democratic process can lead to compromise.

So only the acts of a sociopath can be considered fully evil by everyone? I might agree but then, ius the sociopath's choice a valid one?

As for a "dmeocratic" process, by what right does that have to categorize anything?

	21-07-2003 22:40									#78
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quote: OFF TOPIC-SAVA DON'T READ.

You need to stop being a dumbass. I used to like you but you are quickly gaining a position on my **** list. There's a difference between a lame, disruptive thread-jack, and minor small talk. And you should respect the thread-starter's wishes if he tells you to stop. As much as I threadjack and troll, the second the thread-starter instructs me to stop, I listen. You appear to be acting very disrespectful.

	21-07-2003 22:40									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Sava So Hitler wasn't evil? He was acting within the bounds of his morals. Is it humid in Cali as well? I could stand 100+ temps if it were dry. I loved it in Albequrque when it was 103 with like 12% humidity.

The humidity is in the 20s, not that bad. The thing is it's very warm in the morning and at night during July and August. It's still in the 90s at around 8 or 9. You really shouldn't be outside much. The air is very bad. The heat transforms the polution into a more harmfull poison.

	21-07-2003 22:47									#80
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Just for you, Sava....I made a thread to funnel all the reds and pigdogs....

-=Vel=-

	21-07-2003 22:50									#81
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Thanks Vel...

Kid: Your comment on pollution reminded me of another kind of evil. Industry that knowingly damages the environment is quite evil. They know their acts are damaging to people, as well as animals and plant life, yet because they aren't willing to bear the added expense of cleaning up, they continue to pollute our air, water, and soil.

	21-07-2003 22:51									#82
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OT on the ol' OT

Yeah, the Valley is a funnel for all the smog coming from LA, and it stops right up agains the Sierra Nevadas, on top of Fresno... So, the air quality suks, it is hot and dry however... Though last year there were several thunderstorms, but that was weird.

Kid: I think Sava is just mad that you are doing the exact same thing he does to every other thread

---

What Hitler did was evil, no doubt, but I wouldn't say it was universally evil unless Hitler himself knew what he was doing was wrong (which he probably did)... My point is that the only real, a.k.a. 'universal' evil is to betray yourself, everything else can be subjective... For example, not only did Hitler but many other Germans, Polls, Austrians, etc. also committed the same acts and may not have felt it wrong. It was only the outsiders that could see the evil...

	21-07-2003 23:07									#83
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"Was Hitler evil"?

Ok, by what criteria do we answer that question?

To answer that qwuestion, you need some code by which you can judge an action (or set of actions) as "good" or "evil". Once you have said code, you can certainly answer the question. But if one wants to know whether HIlter is "uiniversally evil", "absolutey evil", then you have to prove that the moral code you used to answer the question is absolute and universal.

By the set of moral codes and traditions of Europe and Germany in 1933, when Hitler took power, was Hitler evil? Yes, yes he was. BY the moral codes of today, was Hitler evil? Yes, yes he was. Are any of the codes in which is would not be declared evil still in practice? No, they are not. So hitler remains evil.

	21-07-2003 23:51									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Why don't you just say "no communists allowed." Then you and the rest of the capitalists can discuss how ****ed up your own system is and not be bothered with any solutions to the problems.

I say really? I highly doubt that our system is ****ed up. You are the one with that type of system. We have the one that works.

But as Ming said, carry on with the topic...

Now further response from me...

I believe in good and evil, but I do believe good is a more powerful force in this world than evil. Perhaps because I am optimistic. Hitler was evil then, and if he was alive today, would be evil now.

	21-07-2003 23:52									#85
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quote: Hitler was evil then, and if he was alive today, would be evil now.

Is there a time he wouldn't be evil?

	21-07-2003 23:53									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Is there a time he wouldn't be evil?

He always will be evil. I don't care when... sorry that my sentence was a bit ambigious.

	21-07-2003 23:58									#87
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There are so many cultural differences regarding what is Acceptable.............Is Humanity going to Hell? It depends who you ask..........Christian fundamentalists say yes......The Indian Tribe in the heart of the Brazilian Amazon no.....The buddhist monk maybe....The same problems keep popping up over & over so my Personal View is Probably

	22-07-2003 00:00									#88
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If we really look at it, humanity has gone to hell a long time ago... perhaps a thousand years ago...

	22-07-2003 00:05									#89
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It's only a matter of time before the humanity goes to hell on Earth just like the dinosaurs.

	22-07-2003 00:10									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless It's only a matter of time before the humanity goes to hell on Earth just like the dinosaurs.

I kinda hope not. Well we probably get the technology to leave this earth and go mess up another.