21-07-2003 11:34									#1
	Is humanity (collectively) going to hell? Put an end to popups!

Not really a religious topic... but assuming it exists... is humanity going to hell?


I saw a report about Chinese women wanting to bleach their skin, because apparantly in China, it's considering beautiful to be pale.

This is part of a larger issue. But considering the state of the world, I think humanity is on a one-way ticket to the gates of hell. In third-world countries, there is so much violence, it's unthinkable to me. I can't imagine what life must be like. People dying of aids, children starving, evil warlords killing people... ugh... it turns my stomach. But in richer countries, there is still killing, exploitation, and crime. Vanity is becoming an obsession in industrialized nations... botox, cosmetic surgery, mass media and the exploitation of sex... it's all bad. Americans spend so much on vanity, it's almost a crime. I've expressed before that America shouldn't be the mother nipple of the world, supporting overgrown populations that can't feed themselves... but with so much waste in this country, isn't it immoral that we aren't doing more as a nation? I'm not even going to bring up the death and destruction of past wars.

I guess my question is more in line with, "Is humanity evil?" I used to think no... then yes... then neutral... but now I'm leaning towards yes again.

discuss...

	21-07-2003 11:39									#2
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Nope, only the Finns.

	21-07-2003 11:43									#3
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The French are the evil ones... the French and their.. umm...

*walks off quietly*

Now if you used your logic, you would conclude that humanity already went to hell hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

	21-07-2003 11:43									#4
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Vastly oversimplified, but

John 3:16

quote: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

There is certainly a lot of evil in the world today, we still have the opportunity to be saved.

	21-07-2003 11:44									#5
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Religion makes me sick.

	21-07-2003 11:45									#6
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Yes, the problem is called "capitalism", which roughly means that people pursue their short term self interest without any regard for the needs of others or for their own long term well being or those of their descendants.

People aren't so much evil as indifferent and shortsighted. People know that spending money on shiny frivolities essentially means that there are less resources going to be spent on feeding the starving, but they deceive themselves into thinking that it can't be changed and that everyone else is doing it anyway.

The consumer society is inherently stupid anyway. People buy things to keep up with their neighbours who buy things to get ahead of them and so on... Frankly, they'd be better off if they didn't, since the whole competition is productive of unhappiness and angst for most people. But no one is willing to unilaterally disarm. Meanwhile we sit on our behinds consuming bright pieces of plastic and cloth with no apparent rational use, whilst the people who we have excluded from this wondrous game make these pointless things for 3 cents a day.

Hopefully, one day people will wake up and see that this amoral free-for-all is destroying the planet and threatening the survival of our species. Either that or some bright spark will manage to genetically engineer greed and irrationality out of our natures.

	21-07-2003 11:46									#7
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Humanity is born with innate evil. That's not to say every baby comes out wanting to suck the blood out of the first person they see, but its there, and is easily nutured by the corruptions of this world.

There is only one who is good.

	21-07-2003 11:47									#8
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You take that back! I am NOT the winner!

	21-07-2003 11:47									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi There is certainly a lot of evil in the world today, we still have the opportunity to be saved.

Which would be true, if only religion weren't a load of superstitious bollocks.

Frankly I don't care if people want to grovel in the dirt in hope of salvation, as long as they don't use it as an excuse to stop doing anything about the real misery that surrounds us.

	21-07-2003 11:47									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Yes, the problem is called "capitalism", which roughly means that people pursue their short term self interest without any regard for the needs of others or for their own long term well being or those of their descendants. People aren't so much evil as indifferent and shortsighted. People know that spending money on shiny frivolities essentially means that there are less resources going to be spent on feeding the starving, but they deceive themselves into thinking that it can't be changed and that everyone else is doing it anyway. The consumer society is inherently stupid anyway. People buy things to keep up with their neighbours who buy things to get ahead of them and so on... Frankly, they'd be better off if they didn't, since the whole competition is productive of unhappiness and angst for most people. But no one is willing to unilaterally disarm. Meanwhile we sit on our behinds consuming bright pieces of plastic and cloth with no apparent rational use, whilst the people who we have excluded from this wondrous game make these pointless things for 3 cents a day. Hopefully, one day people will wake up and see that this amoral free-for-all is destroying the planet and threatening the survival of our species. Either that or some bright spark will manage to genetically engineer greed and irrationality out of our natures.

What utter nonsense!



The real problem in this world is communism which imprisons people all around and kills them like dogs.

	21-07-2003 11:51									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Fez What utter nonsense! The real problem in this world is communism which imprisons people all around and kills them like dogs.

Yes, as opposed to your friends.

	21-07-2003 11:51									#12
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You are delusional beyond belief. You act like monkspider in this regard.

	21-07-2003 12:05									#13
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You can't spell the word 'H·E·L·L' without the double hockeysticks!

Dante describes Heck as cold, not burning brimstone, so I wonder who gets the hockey games.

I expect by the time I go, Denis Leary will be headlining at Scorcese's new club, Satan and Saddam will have made up (again), and Keith Richards will be a new type of synthetic drug.

Fvckin' Commies.

	21-07-2003 12:13									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Yes, the problem is called "capitalism", which roughly means that people pursue their short term self interest without any regard for the needs of others or for their own long term well being or those of their descendants.

As opposed to the problem called "communism" which roughly means that a group of self-designated elites forcefully decides what they think your interests should be vis-a-vis your usefulness to them and their interest of maintaining power and control over every facet of your life, all the while decrying this as a temporary and necessary measure.

If you're a good hack and play along, they'll see you're at a bare subsistence level and locked into remaining there, unless you become a part of and succeed in the party hierarchy, in which case, due to the exhausting work in determining for the masses what it is they need, you get more stuff and first pick of it than they do.

	21-07-2003 12:15									#15
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why do these threads always end up about capitalism versus communism?

and why is it so many communists enjoy the benefits of a capitalist society? shouldn't they actually live in one before they go off shooting their mouth?

Anyways back to the real topic. Evil. Society is no more evil today than in the past.

If there is a hell, humans have been going there since the dawn of time.

	21-07-2003 12:15									#16
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To me, society was more evil in 1400 or 1500, then it is now.

	21-07-2003 12:19									#17
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what about earlier?- in the ghengis Khan times. They did a lot of raping and pillaging.

The native americans in the southwest also wiped each other out near the same time frame (that is debatable of course- those people who believe the indians are good guys and never did anything wrong dont' beleive that)

	21-07-2003 12:21									#18
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I never said it wasn't more evil earlier.. just saying in those two dates I gave it was more so than it is now. It perhaps was more evil before those dates too...

Look.. society is much better off than it was a hundred, two hundred years or one thousand years ago.

	21-07-2003 12:23									#19
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What I find interesting is that no one even claims that capitalism can improve our future. Capitalists don't have any ideas to stop the madness. They are satisfied with the way things are. The only argument they have is against communism. No solutions.

	21-07-2003 12:24									#20
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what madness?

things are going along just fine in most parts of the U.S. Long as you aren't a certain minority .

	21-07-2003 12:25									#21
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What madness?

And yes capitalism is improving our lives. In 1910, the life expectancy was 30 in leading industrial countries. Today it is 70 years or greater.

Kiddo, communism doesn't work.

	21-07-2003 12:27									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident what madness? things are going along just fine in most parts of the U.S. Long as you aren't a certain minority .

You have got to be kidding me. I'm too tired to start. Just pay attention. Watch the news or something. Hell a couple of months ago someone got blasted right outside of my front door. You don't even have to watch the news.

	21-07-2003 12:30									#23
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someone died in the U.S. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Call the cops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you even realize what the **** is happening in Africa right now? Can you even comprehend that?

And what you are saying is there is too much crime. Communism doesn't stop that. Enact some gun control laws if you think that will help. Gun control has nothing to do with capitalism.

	21-07-2003 12:31									#24
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And somehow communism is gonna improve that kiddo? I don't ****ing think so. This world sucks. Yes I know. There are a lot of crazy people. There are people out there who would kill me for being queer. But that is not the point. This world will never change no matter what you do. Capitalism is the only damn way to improve things here.

	21-07-2003 12:34									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident someone died in the U.S. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Call the cops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you even realize what the **** is happening in Africa right now? Can you even comprehend that? And what you are saying is there is too much crime. Communism doesn't stop that. Enact some gun control laws if you think that will help. Gun control has nothing to do with capitalism.

The problem is greed and suffering my friend. It's in the US, Africa and everywhere capitalism is.

	21-07-2003 12:36									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The problem is greed and suffering my friend. It's in the US, Africa and everywhere capitalism is.

So basically in communism you **** us all of the things we might enjoy when we work? Take away my PDA because somebody else doesn't have one?

Get a clue.

Greed will exist. And will continue.

You might aswell counter that with new technology to improve the peoples lives.

You offer no solution just a hapless and baseless reply.

	21-07-2003 12:36									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious What I find interesting is that no one even claims that capitalism can improve our future. Capitalists don't have any ideas to stop the madness. They are satisfied with the way things are. The only argument they have is against communism. No solutions.

The whole nature of capitalism is to allow people, individually or in whatever groups they may choose, to (a) determine their own problems, (b) determine their own priorities, and (c) determine their own solutions to those problems in accordance with their priorities.

By definition, we don't deign to decide for you what the "solutions" to your "problems" are, and then impose what we decide is best for you.

	21-07-2003 12:38									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Greed will exist. And will continue.

Only when it is rewarded, not punished. That's human nature. Humans adapt to their environment.

	21-07-2003 12:39									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Only when it is rewarded, not punished. That's human nature. Humans adapt to their environment.

I like money I admit it. I love buying things and I will like stepping out in the world to achieve and buy more things. There... if you want to punish that, you are certainly delusional.

	21-07-2003 12:40									#30
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat The whole nature of capitalism is to allow people, individually or in whatever groups they may choose, to (a) determine their own problems, (b) determine their own priorities, and (c) determine their own solutions to those problems in accordance with their priorities. By definition, we don't deign to decide for you what the "solutions" to your "problems" are, and then impose what we decide is best for you.

That's capitalism for you. It hasn't solved our problems yet, and it's not going to. We have to abandon the old and usher in the new. Only a fool keeps trying the old ways. Have some vision.