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Elok
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Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:29
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Are most of the punishments included in the Bible moral? Should children be stoned to death for disrespecitng thier parents? Is that moral?
If you believe in the single creator God, good for you..end of debate, since I have nothing more to say to such a person on this issue: ater all, what could i say?
If not: what is evil before man joins the scene? Are any actions of, lets say, animals, evil? |
I never said I know what good and evil are. I just stated my certainty that they exist. It is dependent partially on my belief in a creator god, yes.
I believe that there is an inherent limitation to our conscience similar to our limitations in the physical world; we cannot sense right or wrong from where we stand any more than we can sense that the earth is round. We have a hard time conceiving the shape of our world because our concept of space is largely shaped by its gravity and our own experience, and we cannot understand good and evil except very loosely and mostly in retrospect because our consciousness is shaped by our personal desires and the innate flaws of our individual perceptions. That is largely what I meant by shades of gray. The black-and-white is there, we just all need glasses, so to speak. It's interesting that, in terms of physics and biology and such, we tend to make the assumption that any unknown quantity shows a need for further investigation, whereas a disparity in morals and philosophy-an older and far more complex set of mental disciplines-the assumption is that what we are looking for simply does not exist, or worse there is a concession that it does exist but we should stop looking for political or social reasons. The alternative is to investigate further, which generally proves far too painful and personal, which in turn is why we as a species can split the atom and travel through outer space and still want more but rely on a continuously shifting base of ethics and controversy and see it as normal. And don't even get me started on that "your opinion is just as valid as mine so let's just say we're both right" BS. What kind of idiot civilization founds itself on the principle that nothing is true? Stumbling around in the dark spitting out quotes from dead philosophers and hoping we're doing the right thing, not trying to turn a light on for fear that someone will be offended. The proof of God is that we are not dead already, living that way.
Evil is, practically speaking, a failure by a conscious being to follow the best possible course of action out of whatever number of choices are available, the choices in any given situation being limited by a similar failure of others who came before. Generally evil is the defiance of reality-an attempt to have things exactly as desired despite the fact that current circumstances don't allow such ideals to be truly fulfilled. The "evil" answer to such limitation is temporary and ultimately destructive circumvention of problems by any means possible.
In response to your Old Testament troll, I call that harsh laws for hard times. At least, that's my guess. I've personally never tried to impose order on a race of fugitive nomads raised in a state of accustomed brutality, but I bet it's a real *****.
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:29
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This whole system crap, is simply that, crap. People have suffered in every system. There has been absolutely NO system in which everyone lived well. If such a system were to be attempted, I have no doubt a few people would **** it up.
People are generally more self-interested. Everyone else can go to Hell as long as they get theirs. I said, generally, of course. Some people are humanitarians and will help their fellow humans. Sometimes it is as a result of tragedy and for others it is a life calling, but history, since the beginning, has been a story about someone oppressing someone else, etc, etc. ad nauseam.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
I don't appreciate the insults. You are the one who doesn't understand that we are addressing the topic. |
I suppose, if you have a "everything is economics and politics, and everything boils down to one simple black and white issue of what empty label we call X system" worldview, you are. 
First point that sails right over your head is that a lot of the shittiest side of human conduct has nothing to do with economics or politics at all. If you don't believe that, I can think of plenty of garden spots for you to go to.
Second point, in the "real world" resource distribution (if you take the view that material well-being are the only component of human goingtohellness or not) is a lot more complex than simply getting X amount of stuff to each person.
You can't "educate" someone who's main interest is finding some onions to go with your liver, and far more of the misery in the third world is due to violence, famine, health (which are again, not exclusively economic issues), etc.
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Lord Merciless
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Kidi needs to do some travelling in the world, and without his ideological prejudices.
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22-07-2003 00:19
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That is the smartest thing you done yet, kiddo.
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