30-07-2003 00:50									#31
	Tired of ads?

If I get the concept right, this is like a $Mini DG where the $Mini land owners are in control? Sounds awesome. I'm definitely in.

	30-07-2003 00:54									#32
	Increase Your PM Length

as for military affairs, conquered cities should be the property of all those who participated in conquering it. for example, if me, GF, and mitchell conquer a roman city, we each own a third of it. if mitchell sells his third to me for a set amount of gold, then i own 2/3 of it.

should i have to buy all of it, or merely the majority of it?

apparently, i didnt read it all. we don't really own cities, we own tiles. noted.

really, i just want a lot of stuff for having a kicking army. maybe you should have to be a certain level before your armies work for you in that way? i suppose you'd have to be pretty high up to have a large enough army anyway.

also, where does all this money go when we pay it "to the crown"? how does this fake money relate to real money? what if we want to rush buy something? do we have to pay fake money to the crown to spend the real money? whats the ratio?

	30-07-2003 00:55									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX i've been trying to get one of these going form months. i'm rather busy right now (working 2 jobs), but i'll be more free somwhere around august 18th. i have a webserver with php+mysql. www.r0x0rz.org. i can code. who wants some?

Is there anyway to transfer mysql databases? (probably is).

There is just one issue I don't know how to get around with this whole thing and that's fraud. I can make people have to create an account, username/password, but there's no way I can link that to apolyton or restrict people in any way.... unless... ok I have a solution If you'd like someone to work with you uber, I've got time before you do.

	30-07-2003 01:04									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Epistax Is there anyway to transfer mysql databases? (probably is). There is just one issue I don't know how to get around with this whole thing and that's fraud. I can make people have to create an account, username/password, but there's no way I can link that to apolyton or restrict people in any way.... unless... ok I have a solution If you'd like someone to work with you uber, I've got time before you do.

yes, you can transfer mysql databases. i'm not too keen on sql commands off the top of my head (i code with a refrence book ) but i use a mysql manager called phpMyAdmin that i got from http://www.phpwizard.net/ , but they seem to be rennovating. i'm sure you can find it or something else on freshmeat.

i'm interested in hearing your soultion to combat fraud. although, if it's only 12-20 people, i'm sure we can make sure no one's an *******

if you wanna start coding, go ahead. i have some free time on the weekends, but summer is ending and my friends are hanging out more i can probably pump out some code here and there. i can give you FTP access to my webserver if you wish, and you could upload/test the stuff yourself.

i'll have to make you your own mysql user/pass though. lemme know if you're interested.

if you have AIM, send me an IM @ UberKruX (my desktop) or AmeriCommie (my laptop).

danke.

	30-07-2003 01:16									#35
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Sign me up.

	30-07-2003 01:56									#36
	Suffering from ads?

me and epi have been talking, and we could get this rolling as soon as we have a very clear, very extensive set of rules from the Farb man.

EDIT:
i gave him access to mySQL, and FTP access to the webserver. he said he'd work on the user system whenever he had the time.

the user system is the fairly easy part. basically, we need to sit down and design it before we even start coding. i've messed up a few times, and i know that a proper design phase saves time

	30-07-2003 02:20									#37
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

i'd also like to ask GF to make a perdy html document for a FAQ / Rules sheet, with images if you wish.

also, does anyone want to design the webpage? i'm alright with graphics design, but if anyone can do better than me and has the time, sound off.

to check if you're better than me you can check my shameless plug. i mean websites.

in order of which ones i like better:

http://www.r0x0rz.org/
http://www.r0x0rz.org/krux/
http://www.r0x0rz.org/krux4/
http://www.r0x0rz.org/dev/chain/
http://www.r0x0rz.org/krux3/
http://www.r0x0rz.org/krux2/
http://www.r0x0rz.org/krux1/

yeah. if you have the time though, all you.

	30-07-2003 03:18									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

ad, would it be possible to save up my cash, and buy all 8 shares of a settler, and essentuially own the city until it expands?

	30-07-2003 03:52									#39
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX ad, would it be possible to save up my cash, and buy all 8 shares of a settler, and essentuially own the city until it expands?

Oh, I was planning on doing the same thing......

"I hereby elect myself Mayor of my city."

The ultimate ego trip.

I have a four day pass this weekend and can work on graphics. If we have this being computed by a program this can be a whole lot faster and better than the $MiniGame.

I will start compiled and cleaning up the ruleset and post it in the first post of this thread.

	30-07-2003 04:16									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I prefer the krux2 best... darker backgrounds are harder to read.

	30-07-2003 17:50									#41
	Put an end to popups!

Ok I've done some work. I kinda stopped short when I forgot how to do a certain thing, but I've got logging, auction, user page, tile lists, etc. I'll have to look stuff up then do more after 'work'

	30-07-2003 18:28									#42
	Got spare money?

Just a reminder, that I have Friday through Monday off and can playtest this whatever it is you guys are programming, I might be able to help if I knew what it is your working on.

I used to program C64's and I wrote the Access database that tracked, computed, and printed compensation checks for a Multi Level Marketing company.

	30-07-2003 18:46									#43
	Remove this text

No problem. Nothing I've done is online. As I told Uber the one thing I suck at is making things look good. That's something I assume you can do (seeing what you'ev done before). The PHP might be hard to navigate as the way it builds html in real time, but if you designed anything in straight up html I/Uber could adapt it into the code.

We could open up a private discussion about the basic layout of the website, or just talk about it here. My ideas on pages are:

Login Page - Allows users to log in either anonymously, or as their user. An expiring cookie can be used with a logout option for security.

User Page - open to anyone to view anyone's page. However options with a * are only viewable to the user:
A list of all owned tiles, of all owned buildings, of all outstanding debts, *of all current bids, money in the bank, *exchange money, *sell tile, *buy/sell building.

Tile Page - open to everyone, with * options only available if logged in.
Master list of every tile, their default value, owner, type, output, improvements, resources, *bid (if not owned and for bid), current bid price (if for auction). This list would hopefully be capped with a map and possibly separated by region.

Transaction Page: users only.
Player chooses another player for the transaction. Then sees a list of all belongings on both sides. With multiple selection, designs the transaction to take place. Transaction follows through when both players have logged in and made the same transaction. Until then it is a pending transaction and may be canceled.


I could think up more as I learn more about the actual game, mayorship, etc. I believe what I layed out so far would satisfy the basic demo game.

	30-07-2003 20:45									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Hey, I'm not really into Civ3 anymore but if you want someone to make a map for this game who has some experience with the old Minigame I would be happy to crank one out for you people.

	31-07-2003 00:11									#45
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I've been adding the rules and concepts to the first two posts in this thread if there are any questions or better ideas on ways to do things simply post them.

	31-07-2003 00:23									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

we should really discuss how we are going to represent the data though. are we going to represent the actual tile data in the database? or are we just going to have to manually edit it when we buy 3 tiles that are connected?

	31-07-2003 00:26									#47
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Using our current system of tile numbering, it's impossible for an automated system to know that tiles are connected. Either we make up some new tile ID's, figure out how to find game coords, or do it manually.

Edit: A player could select three tiles and ask for it to be considered a .. whatever its called I forgot. Then on the admin screens (haven't said anything about that yet) it would appear for approval.

	31-07-2003 01:25									#48
	Tired of ads?

I was thinking about that. Could we use the coordinates that Civ3 assigns to each tile to keep track of them?

The time consuming stuff that would be nice to have automated:
1) Tile Production - Food, Shields, Commerce (could add a fourth for Special Resource Flags that tell the system to consider certain production as special production)
2) Tile Ownership - The player who owns the tile, thus it could list the Player's production from all their tiles.
3) Markets - If the system would automatically compute the markets once all the transactions had been inputted.
4) A way to tell what improvements were in each tile or city, and in the case of cities who owned what. The cities could be complicated as different players could own taverns in one city.



The map stuff could be handled by hand. No need to tell if tiles are adjacent, etc. We can easily look at the deed map and tell if three tiles are connected. I actually enjoy making the maps and borders. Its all the number crunching that took all of my time and concentration. Baronies and the like don't have any impact on the trading system except the rank grants the player bonuses and allows them to own more land.

If we had a block for each player that tracked their rank we could change it as their rank was changed. The system would just use to compute bonuses and # of tiles they were allowed to own.

	31-07-2003 01:31									#49
	Put an end to popups!

It should be able to keep track of everything you just said. I assume what we'll have is a table of cities with sizes, and check boxes for important improvements. A table for buildings as well. We need things so that any person or city can have any number of some thing by any person or city (however likely restricting each person to one of a kind of building per city).

	31-07-2003 01:37									#50
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The supply/demand system is going to have problems (as it did last time, IIRC). There simply isn't enough demand.

	31-07-2003 03:12									#51
	Remove this text

my origial idea, that i thought would be cool, but hard to design / code efficiently was to have a matrix of tiles. if we decided on a map size, we would know the dimensions. is there a way to get coordiates in game? if so we could start out with all "black" tiles, and as we discover them, we (an admin) input their data, and they'd go up for sale.

otherwise, provide me with an efficient naming system. if you have a coder's mind, and know how the basics of how a database functions, you'd be more helpful

	31-07-2003 03:39									#52
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX my origial idea, that i thought would be cool, but hard to design / code efficiently was to have a matrix of tiles. if we decided on a map size, we would know the dimensions. is there a way to get coordiates in game? if so we could start out with all "black" tiles, and as we discover them, we (an admin) input their data, and they'd go up for sale. otherwise, provide me with an efficient naming system. if you have a coder's mind, and know how the basics of how a database functions, you'd be more helpful

I think I know the basics of a database, I'm just not familiar with the language and codes your using. I don't know of a way to get the coordinates in game, but if someone was to generate a map and set it up for us they could open it in the map editor and and tell us what some of the tiles coordinates were.

We could be able to compute the other coordinates from that info.

	31-07-2003 04:38									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I think I know the basics of a database, I'm just not familiar with the language and codes your using. I don't know of a way to get the coordinates in game, but if someone was to generate a map and set it up for us they could open it in the map editor and and tell us what some of the tiles coordinates were. We could be able to compute the other coordinates from that info.

epi told me that too. if we knew the coord ranges, we could make a matrix and be given our start coord as a basis, yada yada yada.

but is this the best way to organize the info? what else can you come up with?

PHP is very similar to C, and you use mysql queries in PHP to use the DB. heres an example from my news script:

PHP:


$db = mysql_connect("localhost", $dbu, $dbp);

mysql_select_db("krux",$db);



$max=(mysql_num_rows(mysql_query("SELECT * from news"))) - 1;



if ( !isset( $low ) )

{

    if ($max >=10)

    {

        $low = $max-10;

    }

    else 

    {

        $low = 0;

    }

}





for( $id=$max; $id>$low; $id-- )

{

    $query = mysql_query( "SELECT * FROM news WHERE id=$id", $db );

    $arr = mysql_fetch_array( $query );



    $username = ($arr["username"]);

    $title      = ($arr["title"]);

    $news      = ($arr["news"]);

    $date      = ($arr["date"]);

	31-07-2003 04:59									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I wouldn't think a grid system would be the best way to organize the info, but that's just me. The last game we just assigned them a number as they became available and used a directional description as their title.

Could we give each tile a cell for its location description?

Say Tile A101's description is typed in as "Uberlund wnw" so its the tile west-northwest of the city of Uberlund.

Then if we could generate a list by Player Name say something like:

code:

Player Name
1) First tile owned by Player Name - stats of tile/buildings, etc.
2) Second tile owned by Player Name - stats of tile/buildings, etc.
3) Third tile owned by Player Name - stats of tile/buildings, etc.
And so on.......

	31-07-2003 05:12									#55
	Increase the size of your Attachments

we could easily develop several "tables" int the database.

one could be a "user" database, that has username, password, etc etc, and then a list of tiles (s)he owns. my only problem is how would the script "know" the tiles are connected?

firstly, we have to develop a way of naming the tiles that doesnt require renaming, and this is the major problem.

if we know our start location is 100, 47, this would be workable. we could just label them like that.

two things come to my mind about how to tell if they're connected.

the first way (more automated, but makes for more coding work) would to have the script go through the list of tiles for a user, and check the x and y coords for a "differ by one" relation.

another way would be to input it in a different way. instead of having a list of tiles, we could do something like: Barony([12,3][12,4][12,5]), Kigdom([47,22]...

in that instance, we could then explode that into a series of arrays for the script, and we'd essentially end up with a matrix, something like:

$player_id[$lands][0] would point to the aforementioned barrony
$player_id[$lands][1] would point to his kingdom
etc, etc.

IN FACT, we could make the SUBMISSION SCRIPT do the "contigous" checking, and then make group the tiles as i mentioned above, and then it put in to the DB already sorted like that.

we'd have to be very careful about the buying / selling features and their effects on lands, but it's workable.

now, GF, i need to learn how a minigame works

i read something about taverns and whatnot and my mind went numb for a second.

	31-07-2003 05:27									#56
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Basically there are three products we produce and sell:
Food, Shields, and Commerce.

There is a market for each and the final price at the close of the market is what all goods are transacted at unless two players have negotiated a set price between them.

The final price is Demand/Supply * $100.

While those sources vary, the universal description would be something like

code:

(Special + Total number sold)/(Special + Total number bought) 

	31-07-2003 05:28									#57
	Full PM-box? Change here!

ok, i have an idea now. we'd create several tables for information:

USER TABLE
id
username
password
land_ids

... the land_ids field will be a list of id's, pointing to the land table. this will allow a complex land "class" to be linked to from the user's "class"

LAND TABLE
id
owner
type (barron, county, dutchy, kingdom, scattered tiles...)
tiles (a list of the coords of all the tiles)
improvements

the "tiles" field would link to the "tile" table.

TILE TABLE
id
base_prod
...

GF, if you could fill these in with all the required information for datakeeping (ie, what i need to keep track of in a tile, in a "region", etc), that would be f*cking great man.

	31-07-2003 05:35									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX GF, if you could fill these in with all the required information for datakeeping (ie, what i need to keep track of in a tile, in a "region", etc), that would be f*cking great man.

That will not be a problem. I need to go over some stuff and make sure I get everything so I may not post the complete list until tomorrow sometime.

	31-07-2003 05:39									#59
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb That will not be a problem. I need to go over some stuff and make sure I get everything so I may not post the complete list until tomorrow sometime.

not a problem. when we have all the data, we can start making scripts

	31-07-2003 05:47									#60
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX not a problem. when we have all the data, we can start making scripts

The first obvious three pieces of info are

code:

Food
Shields
Commerce