24-07-2003 16:34									#1
	How about a $MiniGame Democracy Game. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

How about a $MiniGame Democracy Game. Where our actions and decisions are freely driven by each members attempts to improve their holdings and what not.

I had been working on a system for that with the $MiniGame and we have been experimenting with that type of system in the Glory of War.

You could have the following positions:
Chancellor- makes all decisions regarding Luxury and Tech Slider positions and spending of money. Plays the turns.

Various Ambassadors who are responsible for foreign diplomacy and trade.

Mayors. Each city has a mayor which is an elected position. Anyone who owns a tile in a city's radius get 1 vote for each tile they own in the city radius for that city's Mayor. The mayor makes building queu decisions for that city. All workers are assigned to the city that built them with the intial worker belonging to the capital city. The Mayor is also in charge or worker actions for his cities workers.

We would wait for the initial auction until we had enough tiles for everyone to have one. OR we could mod it so that each civ started with 3 settlers and 3 workers to speed it up a bit. Personally, I would have no problem with playing quite a few turns on a weekend turnchat to get up to the point where we could auction off tiles.

Another thing. Settlers should be like Merchant Colonies. They have nine shares (1 tile in the initial radius for each share holder) and we would auction off the shares when we create the settler.

REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS TO THE CURRENT DEMOCRACY GAME, IF WE HAD TWELVE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN DOING THIS WE COULD START IT UP.

How do I get tiles?

The Treasury is the financial representative of the Government it loans money to the players for their initial land purchase. You may never borrow more money that your land holding's value except for your initial purchase.

For your initial purchase you may buy up to THREE TILES of land. You simply post that you wish to bid whatever dollar amount you wish to bid. The price listed by each tile is the MINIMUM bid required for that tile. Each listing also lists the current production for that tile.

Initital purchases have a GRACE PERIOD of 10 turns. If you pay all debts to the bank in full by the end of your tenth turn you will owe no interest. After the tenth turn the bank will charge you 20% interest on your outstanding debt balance at the beginning of each turn.


What are tiles good for?

In Civ3 tiles generate three basic resources: Food, Shields, and Commerce. These in turn are our three Basic Markets.

FOOD - What people eat, can be sold directly on the market or can be sold through restaurants, etc.

SHIELDS - What you use to build things, can be sold on the market or used for construction.

COMMERCE - Trade goods or general merchandise. Can be sold on the market or through stores.

There is also a Fourth Basic Resource:

LABOR - Each player gets one Labor to represent the vassals any Lord would have. Additional Labor can be hired from towns or can be bought in the form of additional vassals at auction. Vassals eat 1 food for every 2 vassals that you own. This number is NOT rounded up.

Each turn we produce product based on our tiles. During that trade session we sell or utilize these resources as we see fit.

Special Resources such as Bonus, Strategic, and Luxuries make all production in that tile that corresponds to the resource bonuses to become a related product. These typically have a percentage bonus to their sell price.
For example Wheat gives a +2 to food production, therefore all food produced from a Wheat tile is Wheat(food). Cattle gives a +2 to food and +1 to shield, therefore all food produced from that tile is Beef(food) and all shields are Leather(shields).

List of Special Resources
Sold on the Food Market:
Grapes = food from Wine tiles 15% bonus
Beef = food from Cattle tiles 20% bonus
Leather = shields from Cattle tiles 10% bonus
Grain = food from Wheat tiles 20% bonus
Venison = Food from Game tiles 30% bonus

Sold on the Shields Market:
Iron = shields generated from Iron tiles 30% bonus
Coal = shields generated from Coal tiles 20% bonus
Crude Oil = shields generated from Oil tiles 10% bonus
Aluminum = shields generated from Aluminum tiles 30% bonus
Weapon Grade Uranium = shields from Uranium tiles 50% bonus

Sold on the Commerce Market:
Horses = commerce generated from Horse tiles 30% bonus
Saltpeter = commerce generated from Saltpeter tiles 30% bonus
Fuel Coal = commerce generated from Coal tiles 10% bonus
Petroleum = commerce generated from Oil tiles 20% bonus
Rubber = commerce generated from Rubber tiles 30% bonus
Fuel Cell Uranium = commerce from Uranium tiles 10% bonus
Dye = commerce from Dye tiles 30% bonus
Incense = commerce from Incense tiles 30% bonus
Spice = commerce from Spice tiles 30% bonus
Ivory = commerce from Ivory tiles 30% bonus
Gold = commerce from Gold tiles 50% bonus

Sold on the Alcohol Market:
Wine = commerce from Wine tiles 15% bonus (alcohol)

There are also Finished Goods which are created by transforming other goods.



HOW THE FINAL PRICE IS DETERMINED
We use a simple ratio: Demand/Supply (*Base Price)
Typically the base price is $100 unless stated otherwise.
Demand is the demand source number plus any product purchased by the players.
Supply is the supply source number plus and product sold by the players.


Your Basic Markets

FOOD MARKET
Demand = 2xPop of all the cities + any food bought by the players
Supply = The food generated by the city tiles (the tiles the cities are located on) + any food sold by the players
Base Price = $100

SHIELD MARKET
* This has changed from the last $MiniGame
Demand = The total # of shields required to complete all non unit projects the cities are currently building.
Supply = The shields generated by the city tiles (the tiles the cities are located on) + any shields sold by the players
Base Price = $50

COMMERCE MARKET
Demand = per capita GNP*Pop + any commerce bought by the players
Supply = The commerce generated by the city tiles (the tiles the cities are located on) + any commerce sold by the players
Base Price = $50

LABOR MARKET
Labor is computed on a per city basis.
Demand = number of labor attempted to be hired by the players
Supply = the city's Pop


Additional Markets

ALCOHOL MARKET
Wine, Rum, Beer, and Ale. Base price $100

Set at Pop x 1 for cities 5 and under, Pop x 2 for cities 19 and under, and Pop x 3 for cities 20 and over. The larger/more densely packed the city, the greater the demand fof alcohol.

So a size 5 city would have a demand of 5. A size 6 city would have a demand of 12, and a size 20 city would have a demand of 30.

DONE ON A PER CITY BASIS (each city is its own market and alcohol must be produced in the city radius of the city it is sold in with the exception of Wine) until the discovery of railroads, at which time it becomes a nationwide market.




CURRENT BUILDINGS LIST:
RETAIL BUSINESSES
{city only} (Costs 3 shields/labor) Requires ? Advance

Any "Retail Business" can be expanded into a "Chain Retail Business" for an additional cost of 2 shield/labor which removes the 6 product max (so if the city was size 14 a "retail business" only allows you to sell 6 product at a bonus, but a "chain retail business" would allow you to sell 14)

When built, you must choose the type of "retail business" it is:

1) "Shoppe" -bonus applies to commerce (same as current Shoppe)
2) "Eatery" -bonus applies to food (same as current Tavern)
3) "Tavern" -bonus applies to food AND alcohol, but must sell at least 1 of each to receive bonus
4) "Bar" -bonus applies to alcohol
5) "Steak House" bonus only applies to Beef (food from tiles with the Cattle resource) but bonus is 75%, not 50%
6) "Hardware Store" 50% bonus applies to shields and halfShields.
7) "Specialty Shoppe" bonus applies to a specific type of commerce (ie, Horses, Dye, Spice, etc) and only that commerce receives the bonus, but the bonus is 75%, not 50%.

Any Shoppe, Hardware Store, or Specialty Shoppe in a city with a Marketplace receives an additional 25% bonus, or 75/100% total bonus.

You can cease operations for 1 trading session and convert from one type of "retail business" to another type for a cost of 1 shield/labor.


OTHER BUILDINGS
INN {city only} (Costs 5 shields/labor) Requires ? Advance
Requires Eatery, Tavern, Bar, and/or Steakhouse in city chosen.
Doubles bonus on product sold in Eateries, Taverns, Bars and Steakhouses owned by player in city but IS NOT cumulative with the bonus from a Marketplace.
An Inn requires 1 local labor to operate.

Any Inn can be expanded into an Inn Chain in a specific city for an additional cost of 3 shield/labor which removes the 6 product max (so if the city was size 14 an "inn" only allows you to sell 6 product at a bonus, but an "inn chain" would allow you to sell 14)
An Inn Chain requires 1 local labor to operate.


STOREHOUSE {city or estate} (Costs 2 shields/labor) stores up to 20 commodities (including food). NOTE: you may store up to 10 nonfood items(shields/commerce) in addition to/instead of this 20 storage.


BREWERY {city or estate} (Costs 5 shields/labor) Requires ? Advance
Allows up to 4 labor to convert up 2 food into 2 Ale {Changed name from mead to ale} per labor (1 to 1 conversion).
And/or convert up 2 Grain(only source is Wheat) into 2 Beer (1 to 1 conversion). Beer sells at 30% bonus.
1) Breweries may only sell their product in a city which contains the source Brewery in its radius, or is connected to the source Brewery by railroad.
2) Until the discovery of Electricity, Ale and Beer MUST be sold the turn after it is produced, it cannot be stored.

Source for labor on estates can be vassals or city labor from any city with the brewery in its radius. For breweries in cities the labor must come from the city labor pool and/or vassals of landowners who own land within the city's radius.

Breweries may only sell their product to cities they are in the radius of until the construction of railroad. (So Duff Brewery can only sell alcohol to Tassagrad and Termina)

Source for labor on estates can be vassals or city labor from any city with the brewery in its radius. For breweries in cities the labor must come from the city labor pool and/or vassals of landowners who own land within the city's radius.

All alcohol can be sold on either the food OR commerce markets, and is calculated with the alcohol subDemand bonus.

Note that the only forseeable sources of wheat are American territory to the north and Uber Isle to the south.


DISTILLERY{city or estate} (Costs 5 shields/labor) Requires ? Advance
Allows up to 4 labor to convert 2 Sugar into 2 Rum
Rum sells at 50% bonus.
The sugar must be in the Distillery's possesion at the beginning of the trading session.
Like Wine, Rum can be sold anywhere in the Market and can be stored.

Source for labor on estates can be vassals or city labor from any city with the brewery in its radius. For breweries in cities the labor must come from the city labor pool and/or vassals of landowners who own land within the city's radius.

NOTE: Sugar can only be grown in select markets, on grassland and in replacement of food. You must state during the trading session that you are growing sugar instead of food and the sugar can be sold at the end of the session on the commerce market or stored.

So basically Rum is the most profitable but requires the most coordination to produce.


WIND MILL {city or estate} ( Costs 5 shields/labor) Requires ? Advance
Allows up to 4 labor to convert 2 grain into 2 flour per labor. Flour sells on the food market at a 50% bonus.


BAKERY {city only} (Costs 4 shields/labor) Requires ? Advance
Allows up to 4 labor to convert up 2 food into 4 Snacks per labor (1 to 2 conversion).
And/or convert up 2 flour into 6 Pasteries per labor (1 to 3 conversion).

Snacks sell on the commerce market with no bonus. Pasteries sell on the commerce market with a 50% bonus.
Both Snacks and Pasteries may be sold through Shoppes and recieve the Shoppe bonus.


LUMBER MILL {city or estate} (Costs 5 shields/labor) Requires ? Advance
Requires tile to have river access.

Allows up to 4 labor to convert 1 shield into 2 half-shields per labor. Half-shields function exactly like shields but sell at half the price, representing crafted construction supplies. (Your turning logs (used to build log cabins) into lumber (thinner strips of wood))


RACE TRACK {city or estate} (Costs 5 shields/labor) Requires Currency Advance
Requires 1 labor to operate per every 4 horses and must run at least 2 horses.
Generates 1 commerce per pop of cities with the racetrack in their radius for each labor required and that commerce is considered sold at D:S. The commerce IS considered part of the supply in the D:S calculation (it was from the Pop's disposable income).

(Example if you are running 4 horses, 1 labor, 1 commerce for each pop. Running 5 horses, requires 2 labor, generates 2 commerce for each pop.)

Each horse must come from a different player, no player can enter more than one horse per racetrack. Its up to the racetrack owner on how they want to compensate or hire players to enter horses or amount of purse if offered.

Race results will be determined by a Commisioner who CANNOT enter any horses.

Horses (commerce generated from tiles with the Horse resource) sell on the commerce market with a 30% bonus to final sale price.
Note that currently the only source of horses is notyoueither.
Horses can be kept on any tile that produces a food and as long as only one horse is kept on each tile it has no effect on the tiles food production. For each pair of horses on the same tile, 1 food is consumed.


PAPER MILL {city or estate} (Costs 5 shields/labor) Requires Writing Advance
Requires tile to have river access.

Allows up to 4 labor to convert 1 shield into 2 paper per labor. Paper sells on the commerce market.


BINDERY {city or estate} (Costs 3 shields/labor) Requires Literature Advance
Representing scribes before the printing press

Allows up to 4 labor to convert 1 paper into 1 book (or 2 pamphlets) per labor. Books and Pamphlets sell in the commerce market with the Literature subDemand. Books sell at 150% D/S and Pamphlets sell at 75% of D/S.


PRINTER {city or estate} (Costs 5 shields/labor)
A Binder can be upgraded after the discovery of the Printing Press for 2 shields/labor.

A Printer basically doubles what a labor can do versus a Bindery.

Allows up to 4 labor to convert 2 paper into 2 books (or 4 pamphlets) per labor. Books and Pamphlets sell in the commerce with the Literature subDemand.


Literature subDemand is equal to the market's pop x the literacy rate with an additional +1 added for each library and university in the market. As long as the subDemand is not met, all "literature" products sell at a 50% bonus.




To build a building in a city you must hire at least one labor from that city. Additional labor may be brought in from any noble's estate, but the first labor must be from the city or local authorities will not allow any construction on your building to take place.

Labor for Rural Businesses must come from vassals or a city that has the tile in question in its city radius.

The only building that will be "useable" the turn its built is Storehouse. All others technically use the turn to alter/sell products and should be in existence at the beginning of the turn to generate benefits.



UNDER CONSTRUCTION

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REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS TO THE CURRENT DEMOCRACY GAME, IF WE HAD TWELVE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN DOING THIS WE COULD START IT UP.

Feudal Democracy $MiniGame Member List
1 GhengisFarb
2 donegeal
3 Epistax
4 Panzer32
5 Jonny
6 mrmitchell
7 Uber KruX
8 skywalker
9 Octavian X
10 UnOrthOdOx
11 Nuclear Master

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 02-08-2003 at 04:47

	28-07-2003 00:09									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

DemoGame Rule Additions

GOVERNMENT AND TURN PLAY
The following governmental positions:
Chancellor - Plays the game turn and executes the orders for units, settings, and such relayed to him.

Vice Chancellor - Assists the Chancellor and assumes the duties of the Chancellor in the Chancellor's absence.

High Minister - Responsible for negotiations and diplomacy with other civilizations. Makes decisions on the science and luxury rate. Decides what advance we research.

High General - Responsible for the military readiness and battle plans of the empire.

THE POSITIONS ABOVE ARE NOMINATED IN THE NOMINATION THREAD WHICH WILL BE OPENED ON THE FIRST OF EACH MONTH AND SHALL LAST THREE DAYS.
On the fourth of the month the current Vice Chancellor will start an election thread for each of the postitions to include each of the candidates and an abstain option. The winner will be the candidate that receives the more than half the votes cast. Abstains will not be counted toward the total. All members of this Democracy game are allowed one vote for each of the previous elections.

Mayor - Each city is controlled by a mayor. The voting for a city's mayor is determined as follows:
Each player gets 1 vote for each tile they own in the city's radius.
Each burger who lives in the city gets 1 vote.


The following governmental bodies:



OTHER RULES
Settlers - have 8 shares each and will be bid upon prior to completion. Higher successful bids get first choice on resulting tiles from new city.

Citysite must be located sufficiently away from other settlements to produce at least 8 new tiles. If it is located to produce more than 8 new tiles then the share holders may pick their tile from new tiles that were opened and the left over tiles will be auctioned off.

Proceeds from Sale of Units - Units will be sold off to the players and the owning player controls actions for that unit. Settlers will be sold in 8 shares per settler, but all other units will be auctioned off as one complete property.

Each city is controlled and managed by the Mayor of that city, the Mayor determines the production queus and whether or not to auction off units.

It could be in the city's best interest for example to hold on to some military units for its defense and a worker or two to improve its own tiles. Of course that would be entirely at the discretion of the Mayor.

Proceeds from the sale of the units are distributed as follows:
50% to the Mayor of the city that produced the unit.
20% to the Chancellor
10% to the Vice Chancellor
10% to the High Minister
10% to the High General
If additional High Ministers are later added, they will also get 10% and the Mayor's cut will be reduced that amount.

Owners of Military Units
As the owner of a military unit, you can issue orders for it to do whatever you want. You can attack another civ's units with it (if we are at war, only the Foreign Minister has the authority to declare war-make peace), you can pillage someone else tile with it, or you make it dance the hokey pokey.



UPDATED PEERAGE PROPOSAL:
Territory (Title) {Max # of tiles that can be owned/Min # of Units Posessed}
Burger {0/0}- a player who does not own land. You can be involved with the game without owning land.

Lands (Lord) {5/0}

Barony (Baron) {10/1}- three or more connected tiles (diagonally doesn't count) and pay $500 to the crown.
Barons receive a 5% bonus to all transactions.

(Earl) {15/2}- Own two or more Baronies and pay $750 to the crown.
Earls receive a 10% bonus to all transactions.

County (Count) {20/3}- six or more connected tiles (diagonally doesn't count) and pay $1250 to the crown.
Counts receive a 15% bonus to all transactions.

Duchy (Duke) {25/4}- nine or more connected tiles (diagonally doesn't count) and pay $2000 to the crown. Must be owner/liege of at least three smaller territories.
Dukes receive a 20% bonus to all transactions.

Grand Duchy (Grand Duke) {30/5}- twelve or more connected tiles (diagonally doesn't count) and pay $2500 to the crown. Must be owner/liege of at least five smaller territories.
Grand Dukes receive a 25% bonus to all transactions.

Principality (Prince) {35/6]- fifteen or more connected tiles (diagonally doesn't count) and pay $3500 to the crown. Must be owner/liege of at least two Duchies/Grand Duchies. ANY LEADERS GENERATED BY A PRINCE'S UNITS ARE THE POSESSION OF THAT PRINCE.
Princes receive a 50% bonus to all transactions.

Kingdom (King) {-/7}- Must be owner/liege of at least two connected Principalities (diagonally doesn't count) and pay $5000 to the crown. ANY LEADERS GENERATED BY A KING'S UNITS ARE THE POSESSION OF THAT KING.
Kings receive a 100% bonus to all transactions.

NOTE: that players cannot actually own cities. Cities represent free holdings outside the property of the nobility. However if a player owned the majority of tiles within the city's radius he would for all pratical purposes control the destiny and who got elected Mayor of that city.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 03-08-2003 at 18:57

	28-07-2003 00:15									#3
	Put an end to popups!

All this would work much much better if you could put it together in a php/mysql script which kept records of everything, so people wouldn't make mistakes, reduce paper (epaper) work considerably, etc.
If you are interested I could help programming, but I don't have a computer witth a stable IP.

	28-07-2003 00:24									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Epistax All this would work much much better if you could put it together in a php/mysql script which kept records of everything, so people wouldn't make mistakes, reduce paper (epaper) work considerably, etc. If you are interested I could help programming, but I don't have a computer witth a stable IP.

I would love to have that, what do you mean by a stable IP, if you need webspace for anything I have some space on my website we could use.

Do you want me to add your name to the list?

	28-07-2003 00:29									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It's not just webspace that's needed, it's php support with a mysql server running. That's all free, the only problem is it needs to be running on someone's computer, preferably one whose IP address never changes.

Add me!

	28-07-2003 00:35									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Epistax It's not just webspace that's needed, it's php support with a mysql server running. That's all free, the only problem is it needs to be running on someone's computer, preferably one whose IP address never changes.

I use a cable modem. I don' t know if my IP changes or not and am not sure what the rest of the stuff your talking about is. How much memory does all that take?

	28-07-2003 00:40									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well there are 3 components. Webserver, PHP support, and SQL server. I can't say with absolute confidence, but under 100 mb, possibly under 50 mb, I simply don't remember.

The norm is Apache, PHP 4, MySQL. They were all made to support eachother.

Cable modem is almost always a constant IP. What can be done is take webspace from a free server, and tturn it into a portal page which redirects to your server. If your IP changes, change the redirect location.

	28-07-2003 00:41									#8
	Suffering from ads?

That's like way over my head.

	28-07-2003 00:45									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

There are tutorials online on how to get it setup all over the place, including the apache, php, and mysql webpages. It's so common I wouldn't be surprised if it was the setup we're on right now on apolyton.

Done any programming

	28-07-2003 00:49									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

This is an interesting idea, sign me up!

	28-07-2003 00:50									#11
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Epistax Done any programming

Not since the age of the Commodore 64.

We starting to several people expressing interest. What settings should we use?

Say a Large map, random settings, 16 classic civs?

Civ3 or PTW?

	28-07-2003 00:53									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Civ1. I get the magic black squares tha appear in Northern Canada after 2000 AD. (how about PTW?)
Is anyone still restrictted from 1.21f?

	28-07-2003 00:54									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I like PTW simply so I don't have to keep track of both cds.

	28-07-2003 00:57									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

I would prefer PtW, 1.21f.

	28-07-2003 01:19									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

DYP!

large 16 civs is ok for me.

	28-07-2003 01:24									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

sounds great

	29-07-2003 18:22									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

We have at least six people interested, and I am sure a lot more will become involved as they start realizing how much fun we are having.

What do we want the game perimeters to be? I would like to start this up within a week if possible.

	29-07-2003 18:45									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Ghengis- Originally you spoke of 9 shares in a Settler. That would be a tile for the square the city is on, do we want that one owned? (I think we've been avoiding that). Also, a settler may settle in a spot where an adjacent square is already assigned, and could also settle in a spot so that far more than 9 squares are added to the empire's boundry (when sufficiently close to existing boundary lines).

How is it decided when money is used for rushing? Perhaps we keep track of the amount of money each city owns as part of the coffers? When it's forced labor for rushing, this conflict doesn't really exist.
Who owns the units produced? If they take over a city / goodie hut, who gets the goods?
Proposal: An imperial power separate from the economic people

As for game rules:
I believe an easier difficulty as we certainly won't have one desire.
I personally like a lot of land instead of a lot of water, however if we don't want land to be a dime a square, it may be wise to play with less of it.
Barbarians may prove to be more harmful than usual "I'm not gonna rescue him. He made me pay $250 for a goat. a GOAT!". So perhaps we should keep it low.

	29-07-2003 19:29									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I forgot about taking the city into consideration. How about these rules:

Settlers - have 8 shares each and will be bid upon prior to completion. Higher successful bids get first choice on resulting tiles from new city.

Citysite must be located sufficiently away from other settlements to produce at least 8 new tiles. If it is located to produce more than 8 new tiles then the share holders may pick their tile from new tiles that were opened and the left over tiles will be auctioned off.

Proceeds from Sale of Units - Units will be sold off to the players and the owning player controls actions for that unit. Settlers will be sold in 8 shares per settler, but all other units will be auctioned off as one complete property.

Each city is controlled and managed by the Mayor of that city, the Mayor determines the production queus and whether or not to auction off units.

It could be in the city's best interest for example to hold on to some military units for its defense and a worker or two to improve its own tiles. Of course that would be entirely at the discretion of the Mayor.

Owners of Military Units
As the owner of a military unit, you can issue orders for it to do whatever you want. You can attack another civ's units with it (if we are at war, only the Foreign Minister has the authority to declare war-make peace), you can pillage someone else tile with it, or you make it dance the hokey pokey.

	29-07-2003 19:34									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Pillage other people's tiles... Ok no way will we play on a high difficulty if we got that going on. Hehe raze one of our cities....

Great Leaders and Armies are another concern. They could be combined voting, etc. That's an idea for what I suggested as imperial-- a vote of all available people as to what to do. Or an Army could be a vote by the units owns who go into it. Or perhaps (w00t) people can sell their units to imperial for cash.

	29-07-2003 21:35									#21
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Epistax Or perhaps (w00t) people can sell their units to imperial for cash.

I plant all my units in Epitax's areas and tell him to give me all his money or I pilliage like mad!

	29-07-2003 21:43									#22
	Got spare money?

I can see a problem forming...

Why would a mayor want to have his city build anything axcept things that are going to increase his holdings? I forsee workers all over the place and woefully inadequate defense/infrastructure.

Perhaps there is a way to make it so an improvement in a city effects all the tiles it controls?

Another point, if your tile falles into the city radius of more that one city, do you get a vote for each city? I think this would be a good idea cause if one of your tiles belongs to two cities, and you have no chance of winning a mayoral election, you could get bribed. Hmmmm..... this is VERY appealing!

Pilliaging our own improvements, coersion and coruption abound! Build queues that are ment to gain money for the mayor as aposed to helping the overall empire! It would be FAR more realistic!

	29-07-2003 21:48									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

If you don't build any defensive units.. well you lose your whole damn city! I'm sure defense will be a high priority. Offense will be too, as long as it has rewards. Place a bounty on enemy soldiers' heads for one

I've been wondering if we want to do anything special about the tiles the city is actually using. Perhaps you can do nothing with them, but imperial pays the owner?

	29-07-2003 21:51									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The improvements generated additional money, remember? We were all building stuff in cities where there were marketplaces and what not because they gave us a % bonus on our sales.

Factor that into the fact that those players would be hiring local populace and the mayor would probably be getting a cut of that.

Then if we add that the mayor gets his city's pop in bonus votes that he can "vote" in the big elections it should encourage him to grow the city. Say Snivellus is a size 4 city, the Mayor of Snivellus gets 4 add on votes to all our elections. Thus people would try to buy those 4 votes.

AND MEDALS. I figure we would eventually have a Peerage Thread where we list all ranks of nobility. When a player buys a Barony, he would post his Barony's name in the peerage thread and attach his coat of arms. Mayors and Chancellors could offer medals, like say the Order of Berlin to those players who sent a unit to assist in the conquest of the German city of Berlin, or the order of Snivellus 1000 BC to those players who helped defend Snivellus from a German attack in 1000 BC.

	29-07-2003 22:04									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Not bad. So add a military chest-full-of-medals ring to it
Wonders big and small, palaces, forbidden and.. uh.. invited? Two cities could easily fight over the palace forever, I assume this would be a voting thing. Perhaps whatever city owns the palace isn't controlled the same?

What else is there... Luxuries, resources.. pretty much taken care of, everyone will want everything roaded up I assume. Unless.... heheheh one rogue city cuts off several lux's and a strategic resource

Suggestion back to the military thing: Perhaps to achieve ranks/nobily/etc, certain military criteria must be reached? Maybe even restrict land ownership to some level?

	29-07-2003 22:30									#26
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This requires more discussion. Perhaps adding minimum number of units to the Rank criteria. Baron - 1, Earl - 2, Duke - 3, Prince - 4, King - 5.

And adding a maximum number of tiles that could be owned by specific rank.

UPDATED PEERAGE PROPOSAL:
Territory (Title) {Max # of tiles that can be owned/Min # of Units Posessed}
Lands (Lord) {5/0}

Barony (Baron) {10/1}- three or more connected tiles (diagonally doesn't count) and pay $500 to the crown.
Barons receive a 5% bonus to all transactions.

(Earl) {15/2}- Own two or more Baronies and pay $750 to the crown.
Earls receive a 10% bonus to all transactions.

County (Count) {20/3}- six or more connected tiles (diagonally doesn't count) and pay $1250 to the crown.
Counts receive a 15% bonus to all transactions.

Duchy (Duke) {25/4}- nine or more connected tiles (diagonally doesn't count) and pay $2000 to the crown. Must be owner/liege of at least three smaller territories.
Dukes receive a 20% bonus to all transactions.

Grand Duchy (Grand Duke) {30/5}- twelve or more connected tiles (diagonally doesn't count) and pay $2500 to the crown. Must be owner/liege of at least five smaller territories.
Grand Dukes receive a 25% bonus to all transactions.

Principality (Prince) {35/6]- fifteen or more connected tiles (diagonally doesn't count) and pay $3500 to the crown. Must be owner/liege of at least two Duchies/Grand Duchies. ANY LEADERS GENERATED BY A PRINCE'S UNITS ARE THE POSESSION OF THAT PRINCE.
Princes receive a 50% bonus to all transactions.

Kingdom (King) {-/7}- Must be owner/liege of at least two Principalities diagonally doesn't count) and pay $5000 to the crown. ANY LEADERS GENERATED BY A KING'S UNITS ARE THE POSESSION OF THAT KING.
Kings receive a 100% bonus to all transactions.

	29-07-2003 22:50									#27
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This is looking pretty fun

	29-07-2003 23:28									#28
	Put an end to popups!

A formal set of rules needs to be drawn up so I can point out more holes
Spying, espionage operations, etc.. ?
Votes determined by just land ownership? rank? military background? total of all goods in $$$ (probably kept on record).

	29-07-2003 23:31									#29
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I will start posting the compiled rules in the first post tonight.

	30-07-2003 00:48									#30
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

i've been trying to get one of these going form months. i'm rather busy right now (working 2 jobs), but i'll be more free somwhere around august 18th.

i have a webserver with php+mysql. www.r0x0rz.org. i can code. who wants some?