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GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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May 2002
time: 23:29
  Old Post 29-08-2003 02:11 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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#91 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

I figure we can run the smaller one at MZO, then once we get the database stuff up and running we can start a C3C one here for the larger market.

I just want to play, dang it.

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:29
  Old Post 22-05-2004 03:39
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Guess I'll bump this thread. I show the basic format of the database so far in the next few posts. Suggestions welcome. Generally I've gone with smaller database size and more computation requirements (should still be rather minimal) in the design.

I mainly need to know how the $minigame functions. I have a basic idea of what needs to be done, but some of the specifics are missing. Is there an Excel spreadsheet that's been used for a $minigame available?

Pages so far:

Registration page. Inserts a new player (if conditions met), and also creates a stockpile for that player. Id field will be the same for both. Email is for if any automated notices are available and requested, also to clear up any disputes if someone were to register another's forum name.

Login page. Based off the player's name and password.

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:29
  Old Post 22-05-2004 03:44
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code:
player id name password email notify title


This will probably expand to allow for more security (IP, cookies, ect) in the registration and login pages. Right now they are very basic.

Title is a reference to the id in the title table.

code:
title id name tilerequirement unitrequirement connectionrequirement titlesrequirement cost bonus commandleader


code:
tile id name owner x y type resource road mine irrigation railroad harbor offshoreplatform


This will hold the actual tiles. The name would be so the player could name their mountain, hill, whatever. x and y are the coordinates, and I think using a square grid naming system instead of the ingame isoteric system would be best. Basically rotate the map 45 degrees, which won't result in a square map, but it will be obvious which tiles are next to each other with minimal math.

Type references the id field of the tile_type table. That way we only have to store the Food, Production, and Commerce numbers once for each terrain type, instead of 10000 times for each individual tile.

Same thing with resource, it references the id field in the resource table.

The improvements could be consolidated into a single binary field.

code:
tile_types id name food production commerce roadbonus minebonus irrigationbonus railroadbonus harborbonus offshoreplatformbonus


This is pretty straightforward. It's just what you'd find in the editor.

code:
resource id name fbonus pbonus cbonus


Same here.

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:29
  Old Post 22-05-2004 03:59
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code:
building id tile (references tile.id) owner type name


This will be a list of all built/purchaced businesses. Type references the id of the business.

code:
business id name fbonus pbonus cbonus abonus requirements cost upgrade_to upgrade_cost


Here the specifics of each business are stored. upgrade_to would reference the id of the business you could upgrade to. I'm not sure how requirements would be set so far. I'm thinking a bit for each other business, but that will lock us into a certain number of business types.

code:
city id tile mayor pop name


Tile references the tile id where it is built. Do we want building and player to have a reference to city(s) they reside in?

Also do we want to expand this to keep track of build queues and labor assignments?

code:
unit id tile move_to owner type experience name


Tile references the tile id where the unit is. Move_to references the tile id where the owner orders it to move. Type references the id in unit_type so that the unit stats only have to be stored once for each type of unit, instead of for each unit. Name is the owner given name.

Not quite sure how to approach Settlers and their multiple owners.

code:
unit_types id name attack defence movement


Just from the editor. Probably want to expand this for bombardment and type (air, ground, naval). That way we could have our own military power rating for each player.

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:29
  Old Post 22-05-2004 04:05
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code:
stockpile id size food production commerce labor tobacco fruit sugar grain beef fish venison whale iron coal crude_oil aluminum uranium horses saltpeter petroleum fuel_coal rubber fuel_cell_uranium dye incense spice ivory gems gold wine rum beer ale flour snacks pastries paper books pamphlets


The stockpile id would always match the id of the player who owns it. Size would be determined by the number of warehouse 'businesses' the player owns right? Whenever a player builds a new warehouse, it would update the size of that player's stockpile.

The rest of the fields would show how much of each stock the player has.

We could have 2 non-player entries. One for the going rate of each stock, and one for demand? (not really sure how this portion of the game is supposed to work)

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:29
  Old Post 22-05-2004 04:34
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Pages in the works: (suggestions needed)

Player overview page. (available to anyone?) Shows what the player owns. Their title, stocks, tiles, units, buildings

Player admin page. (available only to the Player) Bid on units, tiles, or sell/trade them. Buy/sell/trade/give stocks. Buy/upgrade/modify buildings. Order unit movement. Apply for title. Vote on issues?

City overview page (available to everyone). View build queues, city improvements, units under city control, tiles owned and by whom, tiles up for sale.

City admin page. (available only to the Mayor of that city) Assign laborers, build queues, order movement of city owned units. Put units up for sale.

Demogame overview page. (available to everyone) Shows unit movement orders from owners/mayors. Laborer assignments from Mayors. Build queues from Mayors. Diplomatic status with AI. Financial reports. Latest save for downloading.

Demogame admin page. (available to elected leaders) Set up polls. (not sure if we shouldn't just use the forum for this) Upload saves. This could automatically extract some of the game status for the overview page like is done in the CFC GOTM submission process. Depends on the php processing limit on the hosted server, as php is slow at the decompression.

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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May 2002
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  Old Post 22-05-2004 04:44 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Aeson
I mainly need to know how the $minigame functions. I have a basic idea of what needs to be done, but some of the specifics are missing. Is there an Excel spreadsheet that's been used for a $minigame available?

Yes, I will locate it and post it later. My wife is dragging at me to go right now because we are eating at Texas Roadhouse tonight.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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Jun 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 22-05-2004 05:37
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This sounds extremely interesting so far! I can't wait to get started

Jonny is offline Jonny
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Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Nov 2000
time: 23:29
  Old Post 22-05-2004 07:21
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Looking good...

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 22-05-2004 07:29
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GF, when do you plan for this to be in the works?

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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May 2002
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  Old Post 22-05-2004 08:37 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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The basic info we would need to keep track of would be:
Owner (Player who owns tile)
Food (how much food the tile produces)
Shields (how many shields the tile produces)
Commerce (how much commerce the tile produces)
Resource (What special resource it has (if any))

A resource could change the type of production from any of the three other types.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 22-05-2004 08:43
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I am not understanding some parts of this. How do you aquire more tiles and how do you make money?

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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May 2002
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  Old Post 22-05-2004 16:30 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Nuclear Master
I am not understanding some parts of this. How do you aquire more tiles and how do you make money?

We would periodically auction off more tiles. You make money by selling the output of your tiles in a stock market like fashion.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 22-05-2004 21:53
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But if we do it in a stock market like fashion, why would someone want to buy your output?

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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May 2002
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  Old Post 22-05-2004 23:36 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Nuclear Master
But if we do it in a stock market like fashion, why would someone want to buy your output?

The Market has an inherant demand that requires goods. The cities require food to eat, etc.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 23-05-2004 00:00
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I still don't get it. The city automatically buys everything you make?

Krill is offline Krill
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Dec 2003
time: 05:29
  Old Post 23-05-2004 00:09
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Am I right in thinking that if the city can work 6 squares, and there are 9 available, it would work the 6 tiles that would be the most efficient, ie to grow in a certain number of turns, to complete the build with out any waste, and to maximise commerce? So it is the city that chooses what tiles are worked, and then the owners of those tiles are payed whatever is agreed afterwards?

Like in capitalism?

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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  Old Post 23-05-2004 00:13 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Nuclear Master
I still don't get it. The city automatically buys everything you make?

Not necessarily, the city has a demand. If it is Size 3 and each Pop eats 2 food it has to acquire 6 food to feed its people.

quote:
Originally posted by Krill
Am I right in thinking that if the city can work 6 squares, and there are 9 available, it would work the 6 tiles that would be the most efficient, ie to grow in a certain number of turns, to complete the build with out any waste, and to maximise commerce? So it is the city that chooses what tiles are worked, and then the owners of those tiles are payed whatever is agreed afterwards?

Like in capitalism?

We didn't worry about which tiles the city chose "to work" in game, we simply computed the tile production and city demand separately.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 23-05-2004 01:12
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quote:
Originally posted by GhengisFarb

Not necessarily, the city has a demand. If it is Size 3 and each Pop eats 2 food it has to acquire 6 food to feed its people.


I understand now

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:29
  Old Post 24-05-2004 16:11
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About how much room do you want to allocate to this? The pages themself, and the database, won't take up much room at all. Probably around a couple MB's. The 130x65 tile table takes up around 200k, and eventually the unit, bid, and building tables will be somewhat large too.

There are some fun things we can do that will take up extra space... and I'm sure we can fill up whatever you are willing to allocate.

You mentioned jousting, which I think is a really cool idea. There could be an option to throw a tournament for a certain amount of gold/labor (with prizes). The site (tile) and date (turn) would be chosen, and to enter a unit would need to be there in-game on that turn, and pay an entry fee determined by the host(s). Units fighting could gain experience and levels affecting the outcome of later events they enter. Owners of the units would gain fame based on how well their champions did, and the host(s) would gain fame as well as a commerce bonus (based off the population of the city?).

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 24-05-2004 22:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Aeson
About how much room do you want to allocate to this? The pages themself, and the database, won't take up much room at all. Probably around a couple MB's. The 130x65 tile table takes up around 200k, and eventually the unit, bid, and building tables will be somewhat large too.

There are some fun things we can do that will take up extra space... and I'm sure we can fill up whatever you are willing to allocate.

You mentioned jousting, which I think is a really cool idea. There could be an option to throw a tournament for a certain amount of gold/labor (with prizes). The site (tile) and date (turn) would be chosen, and to enter a unit would need to be there in-game on that turn, and pay an entry fee determined by the host(s). Units fighting could gain experience and levels affecting the outcome of later events they enter. Owners of the units would gain fame based on how well their champions did, and the host(s) would gain fame as well as a commerce bonus (based off the population of the city?).


I support all fun things


GF, I am asking this again. When do you think this will be up and running?

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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May 2002
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  Old Post 25-05-2004 01:13 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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How much space would be more than comfortable?

quote:
Originally posted by Aeson
You mentioned jousting, which I think is a really cool idea. There could be an option to throw a tournament for a certain amount of gold/labor (with prizes). The site (tile) and date (turn) would be chosen, and to enter a unit would need to be there in-game on that turn, and pay an entry fee determined by the host(s). Units fighting could gain experience and levels affecting the outcome of later events they enter. Owners of the units would gain fame based on how well their champions did, and the host(s) would gain fame as well as a commerce bonus (based off the population of the city?).

How about we keep the Units (in game units which would represent troops) and Characters separate?

Reason is the members can own units but we can't really do anything to adjust them in game. We could allow members to have "characters" to represent their followers say "Sir Eatsalot" or "Sir BoBo" and we could use them for fictional activities like Jousts and such. Sorta of a simple D&D game going on the side so those who don't want to be involved aren't penalized for it.

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:29
  Old Post 25-05-2004 15:21
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quote:
How much space would be more than comfortable?


Unless we do a lot of graphic work I don't think more than 5MB will be necessary. With about half of the pages done right now (no graphics/formatting as you've seen) the database is at ~300KB and the pages themselves are only ~100KB.

One of the main things is the save file hosting. That would take a lot of room to keep all the saves, but we could just keep the most recent one(s). Main trouble with that will be the hit against your bandwidth. If we are hosting the save files here (or somewhere else) then I can just have URL's in the database to point to the saves.

There are some fun and timesaving things on the demogame end of things that we could do when uploading the save. Doesn't necessarily have to be hosted for long. The script could just delete it after the upload and analysis even.

I'm not sure, but using an uncompressed autosave we might even be able to dynamically update the map from the save as tiles are uncovered. Updating all those tiles will be a pain otherwise. Updating unit positions and hp's, city status, and such should be possible regardless.

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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May 2002
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  Old Post 26-05-2004 01:35 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Aeson
Unless we do a lot of graphic work I don't think more than 5MB will be necessary. With about half of the pages done right now (no graphics/formatting as you've seen) the database is at ~300KB and the pages themselves are only ~100KB.

I could easily spare that.


quote:
Originally posted by Aeson One of the main things is the save file hosting. That would take a lot of room to keep all the saves, but we could just keep the most recent one(s). Main trouble with that will be the hit against your bandwidth. If we are hosting the save files here (or somewhere else) then I can just have URL's in the database to point to the saves.

There are some fun and timesaving things on the demogame end of things that we could do when uploading the save. Doesn't necessarily have to be hosted for long. The script could just delete it after the upload and analysis even.

I'm not sure, but using an uncompressed autosave we might even be able to dynamically update the map from the save as tiles are uncovered. Updating all those tiles will be a pain otherwise. Updating unit positions and hp's, city status, and such should be possible regardless.

I think the save could be attached in a thread.

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
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Nov 2001
time: 17:29
  Old Post 26-05-2004 18:56
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The saves can be attached up until they get to 500kb, then we'd need to zip them. After a bit longer they would have to be uploaded.

Why do they all need to be available to everyone at all times? Surely we'd only need the last few, unless there is some Feudal need I have so far missed...?

I routinely keep ALL my saves - PBEM and DG. I have a nice of archive of every ISDG save scattered between two or three hard drives.

 
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