27-07-2003 16:20									#1
	Israel makes a huge mistake. Increase Your PM Length

And there is no doubt that many innocent civilains will die because of it. Sharon is reportedly going to give in to Palestinian demands that imprisioned terrorists be set free. This means that many murders and hardered terrorists will once again be free to walk the streets and commit more acts of terror. As of today the PA has not moved one inch towards disarming the numerous Palestinian terror organizations. Under the road map for peace the PA's one and only obligation is to disarm terrorist organizations.

Once again the PA gets something for nothing and the world is worse off because of it.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast...ners/index.html

	27-07-2003 16:26									#2
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So much for all the talk about Sharon not being serious about wanting peace. I can't believe he did this, to be honest.

	27-07-2003 16:30									#3
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If it's not some shady plan where he hopes the released prisoners will create enough trouble to turn the tide against the latest plans for peace and get support for an harder approach on the palestinian question. But I guess that's the conspiracy theorist in me speaking...

	27-07-2003 16:33									#4
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Couldn't Sharon have kept the peace process going by dismantling some settlements instead? Or is that too big a sacrifice compared to releasing terrorists?

	27-07-2003 16:35									#5
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It should however be noted that the larger bulk of the prisoners has not been arrested for terrorist-like activities but more of criminal activities. The Israeli government claims that no one "with blood on his hands" shall be released.

	27-07-2003 16:35									#6
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quote: If it's not some shady plan where he hopes the released prisoners will create enough trouble to turn the tide against the latest plans for peace and get support for an harder approach on the palestinian question. But I guess that's the conspiracy theorist in me speaking...

	27-07-2003 16:37									#7
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It should also be noted that some, if not most of them, of them was set to released anyhow.

	27-07-2003 16:46									#8
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My gut reaction was Oerdin's, to be honest. My brain read the article and thought "Well, there's 1,000s detained. What's 500 low level members?"

I suppose the challenge is going to be getting them something useful to do, instead of mouldering inside Gaza or the West Bank.

	27-07-2003 17:06									#9
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quote: If it's not some shady plan where he hopes the released prisoners will create enough trouble to turn the tide against the latest plans for peace and get support for an harder approach on the palestinian question. But I guess that's the conspiracy theorist in me speaking...

Sharon did Abbas a favour by releasing them. I guess Abbas is a zionist agent, too.

	27-07-2003 17:26									#10
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Noone in Europe will remember that when the next lethal terract occurs. They'll just say "it's their own fault".

I want to migrate.

	27-07-2003 17:28									#11
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and just to clarify, they won't mean it as in "they shouldn't have set them free" but as in "they shouldn't have done so much bad" - "do you remember how they set hudnreds of criminals free? those did this" - "oh, that was only a show. victims of state terrorism did this" - "thank you"

	27-07-2003 17:34									#12
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What i'm really afraid of is that Israel starts to ignore Pal violations again. The terrorist organizations MUST be dismantled, Israel always insisted on it, but now after a few weeks of relative quiet Sharon, just like Rabin, Peres, Netanyahu and Barak before him prefers to ignore possible long term danger in exchange for short term quiet.

	27-07-2003 17:36									#13
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"you see that guy he was a friend of me now he's dead." - "blame Israel" - "thank you"

that friend could be YOU, Eli. now go out and re-arrest those guys.

	27-07-2003 17:37									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Eli What i'm really afraid of is that Israel starts to ignore Pal violations again. The terrorist organizations MUST be dismantled, Israel always insisted on it, but now after a few weeks of relative quiet Sharon, just like Rabin, Peres, Netanyahu and Barak before him prefers to ignore possible long term danger in exchange for short term quiet.

	27-07-2003 17:42									#15
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As much as I wish the Palestinians luck in the struggle for their own country (by diplomatic means, no by terrorism, of course), setting free convicted terrorists is just silly and I really hope, Israel won't have to regret it. I like Sharon even less than Bush, but in this case I wish him good luck.

	27-07-2003 17:56									#16
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I ONCE AGAIN post the Israeli proposal at Taba to show you that they COULD have their own state on 95% of the west bank, and more land in Israel proper, to have passage to the Gaza strip, that would've been fully theirs.

The map is from a european newspaper, and this proposal is documented. The last israeli proposal is on the right, and it even allows for some palestinians to return to Israel, IIRC. the last palestinian proposal calls for the return of all refugees. you can google search it.

	27-07-2003 18:04									#17
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That's a proposal I could agree too, had the Ancient City remained in Israeli hands.

	27-07-2003 18:12									#18
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I wouldn't mind the ancient city split, as long as it was REALLY split, so that the jews would have rights to the temple mount as well, not like now, that it is de-facto palestinian.

	27-07-2003 18:58									#19
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the camp david 2000 one contains Israeli settlements?

looks neat, though us euro lefties would prefer to see a united and peaceful star-fleet-esque J-town

	27-07-2003 18:58									#20
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No one seems to have taken my theory seriously.

And, yeah, the Taba proposal looks good to me, Pals should be fools if they didn't go for this, for now

Couldn't someone just blow up that damned temple mount, it would make it all a tad more easy.

	27-07-2003 19:05									#21
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the sand of the temple mount, if heated properly... you can imagine where it goes from here

	27-07-2003 19:13									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I ONCE AGAIN post the Israeli proposal at Taba to show you that they COULD have their own state on 95% of the west bank, and more land in Israel proper, to have passage to the Gaza strip, that would've been fully theirs. The map is from a european newspaper, and this proposal is documented. The last israeli proposal is on the right, and it even allows for some palestinians to return to Israel, IIRC. the last palestinian proposal calls for the return of all refugees. you can google search it.

Uhm... the Taba proposals did no longer include transitory Israeli control, Israeli corridors, and a security zone along the Jordan?

	27-07-2003 19:21									#23
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Look at the ****ing map. Camp david didn't have Israeli corridors as well, though there was "transitory Israeli control" in the jordan valley.

	27-07-2003 19:21									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel and more land in Israel proper, to have passage to the Gaza strip, that would've been fully theirs.

Why is it important that they have a passage to the Gaza Strip to and from the West Bank?

	27-07-2003 19:26									#25
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Cause getting a pass to Israel would be a tad harder than to an american getting a pass to Canada. (Alaska comparison)

	27-07-2003 19:26									#26
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And?

	27-07-2003 19:37									#27
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I dunno. they asked for it.

	27-07-2003 19:43									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Look at the ****ing map. Camp david didn't have Israeli corridors as well, though there was "transitory Israeli control" in the jordan valley.

1. I think Arafat should have taken the Camp Daiv deal, despite its shortcomings.

2. What you say however looks questionable. Moratinos' non-paper still mentions the corridors.
http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/ca...+palestine+taba

	27-07-2003 19:54									#29
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quote, please. cannot find it.

	27-07-2003 19:57									#30
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"The Israeli side wished to count "assets" such as Israelis "safe passage/corridor" proposal as being part of the land swap, even though the proposal would not give Palestine sovereignty over these "assets"."

"The Palestinian side further maintained that land not under Palestinian sovereignty such as the Israeli proposal regarding a "safe passage/corridor" as well as economic interests are not included in the calculation of the swap."

So they were in there, but open for negotiation if I understand that correctly.