30-07-2003 03:03									#31
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I'm not .

Strat. resources.

	30-07-2003 03:39									#32
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craaaaap.

	30-07-2003 04:02									#33
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Want more?

RoP agreements. Air mission system. Great Leaders.

	30-07-2003 04:20									#34
	Increase the size of your Attachments

CTP2 already has great leaders and ddi before Civ3 was released IIRC, although they dont do much without a working veteran effect.

	30-07-2003 04:25									#35
	Got spare money?

Well, I obviously mean Civ3-style GLs.

	01-08-2003 00:40									#36
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Probably the only way I could help at the moment is testing which is an importent part once the code starts getting changed! We musn't create more bugs than we fix!

Well the "who" is seems to be getting sorted but what about the "how"?

What software engineering model would be best to use etc? (ie requirements-design-testing-implementation cycle etc)

Who would decide and draw up the requirements of what we're going to change etc?

	01-08-2003 00:44									#37
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Hit me if I am wrong but wasn’t strategic resources in the allex scenario.

Only make elephants where there are elephants.

	01-08-2003 01:28									#38
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* Immortal Wombat hits The Big Mc

Well, not quite. It was more, "only build elephants in these chosen (Indian) cities" If you could get hold of the settler and build a city next to (or even on top of) an elephant good, you still wouldn't be able to build elephants, since the cities that could were predetermined.

	01-08-2003 09:29									#39
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat * Immortal Wombat hits The Big Mc Well, not quite. It was more, "only build elephants in these chosen (Indian) cities" If you could get hold of the settler and build a city next to (or even on top of) an elephant good, you still wouldn't be able to build elephants, since the cities that could were predetermined.

Actually Strat resources can be implemented using a city-surrounding-tile-searcher function like the one i used in the city expansion code or the CityCollectingGood(city, good) (if it works) and make a unit/building/wonder only possible to be built in case of the presence of a certain good.

I thought on writting some code like this before but without a goo trade system we will never have those in a good level of strategy(if only they kept the CTP1 system at least). And thats why i never bothered.

	01-08-2003 16:18									#40
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Yeah, certainly. I actually did write quite a bit of code to that effect. I never used it because the AI hasn't a clue, and I don't think strategic resources are a particularly good addition to the game anyway.

	01-08-2003 16:26									#41
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it is the advance chart we rubbishes it without petrol man would have found some other full for his car gas or coal for instance

	01-08-2003 16:27									#42
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Hay I am a king

	01-08-2003 16:29									#43
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my mistake now I am

	01-08-2003 16:42									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Yeah, certainly. I actually did write quite a bit of code to that effect. I never used it because the AI hasn't a clue, and I don't think strategic resources are a particularly good addition to the game anyway.

The Strategical Resources are an interesting concept but they are leading to one of the worst cheats in Civ3 where the AI sends settlers to colonize tiles holding Strategical Resources it don't have the tech required to spot.

	01-08-2003 16:45									#45
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No one else cares about AI fudging like you do Tamerlin... its a necessary evil for game challenge.

When we have real thinking machines, things like this won't be necessary.

Until then they are, unless you're playing checkers or something similar.

	01-08-2003 16:52									#46
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quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins No one else cares about AI fudging like you do Tamerlin... its a necessary evil for game challenge.

I know, I just think we should not add any other cheating. The AI in CtP2 has so many things to learn from the basic game (air units, amphibious assaults, efficient trade, good city sites, efficient combat armies...) that it is IMO useless to add a dubious feature that will dramatically increase the fudging level.

	01-08-2003 21:56									#47
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Hmm. I would love to get my hands into some of that code, but unless we get some goals defined first, I'm afraid it will be a waste of effort to assign programmers.

But since we wouldn't be starting from scratch there is a possibility that a sequel or XP could be created using "volunteers", within a reasonable timeframe.

This leads to the core of my concern: If we do get the source-code, we’ll need to address the following. What do we want to achieve? Do we want to make a bugfix-release of CTP2 (ctp2 as it should have been) or do we aim at a CtP2.5 or even CtP3?

Finally an advice from a guy who spent untold hours analyzing the tile-file: don't change the tile file graphics system. It’s an ingenious system: it's compact, it’s simple, and most importantly it has built-in shadows, and two levels of transparency. Coding this will be a nightmare (I should know, since I already did it once, in a much simpler setting the static one time conversion from tga to .til). I know it would make life easier for the designers and modders, but this will most likely be at the cost of game performance.

	01-08-2003 22:04									#48
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Martin the Dane This leads to the core of my concern: If we do get the source-code, we’ll need to address the following. What do we want to achieve? Do we want to make a bugfix-release of CTP2 (ctp2 as it should have been) or do we aim at a CtP2.5 or even CtP3?

I can only express my wish but I would like a bugfix-release of CtP2 with an improved AI.

	02-08-2003 00:52									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I can only express my wish but I would like a bugfix-release of CtP2 with an improved AI.

I could be wrong, but I think that's the minimum the coders are aiming at. CTP3 will come later I think, with the mods.

	02-08-2003 02:50									#50
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I agree that we should first attempt to create a bug-free version of CtP2 (with maybe slight enhancements but no major changes).

After that, I'd love to create a full sequel, with radical new features and concepts and improved graphics, etc... However, it could prove quite hard to agree on a single design for a sequel: we already have half a dozen major mods (and a couple of designs for mods that were never finished) with some huge differences between them. But that's something for the long term, I don't believe we need to worry about that anytime soon.

	02-08-2003 02:52									#51
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I'm all for the bug-free version. I love CTP2 as it is in SAP2.

	02-08-2003 03:17									#52
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yep me too - lets walk before we run

If CTP2 was just 'finished' when it came out it would have been a winner.

	02-08-2003 06:57									#53
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well... it depends how you define 'bug' or 'finished'. I see a non capable AI (especially with regard to navy/airforce/invasion) as something approaching a bug. Thats fairly pervasive, but a necessary fix, never the less.

	02-08-2003 12:57									#54
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I'm too busy coding Clash to do code on CtP2 when the source code is released.
I want to point out a few things, though:
Open source can go the sourceforge way, which would probably help managing of files, particularly ig there are more than 2 or 3 coders.
I think the first things to do are comment / document the code, fix bugs, and particularly fix the bug that crashes CtP2 when I play Cradle. An example of my crashing savegames is still posted somewhere on these forums .
I won't code myself, but could try to understand some bits of the code and put comments on them (particuarly the ai, since I work on the ai of Clash now), and suggestions of what could be done on that part of the code.

	02-08-2003 13:43									#55
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With the recent minor revelation that the programming was done in MS Visual C++ 6.0, I suppose I have one more small advantage as a programmer, since I have a copy of that. Whether we will get all the associated project files and so forth, I do not know. If we don't, it might not be quite so helpful .

	02-08-2003 15:39									#56
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I wonder whether the files need MSDev or whether a gnu compiler (for instance) could do the trick. I use MSDev at work and find it has two drawbacks: I don't like it, and it is expensive.

	02-08-2003 17:08									#57
	Remove this text

I think a GNU compiler should be able to do the trick, unless there's something msdev-specific.... might be some msdev header files included.

My wish of CtP2 changes is a bug-free version with other improvements mostly concerning AI. I like CtP2 the SAP2 way, and really, fixing bugs and AI would be good... although I agree that, we can never stop .

	02-08-2003 17:16									#58
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I´ve got Visual Studio,
so Visual C++ 6.0 is fine for me

	02-08-2003 17:49									#59
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare it has two drawbacks: I don't like it, and it is expensive.

Hear, Hear!


Allegedly one of Mr Ogre's famous quotes is "gnu god, the open source deity", so I believe(/hope) we may be alright (figures, since he's putting so much effort in getting the source released)...

	02-08-2003 22:43									#60
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I don't like it either, but it's not too expensive on student license. I got Visual Studio primarily for VB.