04-08-2003 02:21									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Each coder will fix their module, submit it to the Programming Manager who will retain the "master source copy". At regular intervals the master source copy is to be resent to the coders so their version is updated. The Prog Manager will also assign jobs to coders so coders don't run around fixing the same things off their own backs. Something I see as important: CODERS MUST COMMENT WHAT THEY'VE DONE IN THE CODE AND EXTERNALLY IN TXT DOCUMENTS!!!!!

Ever thought of makin it a sourceforge.net project? You got cvs a bug-submit and feature-request forum and all such things which helps nicely to do developing.

ata

	09-08-2003 00:32									#62
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If this gets off the ground, I'm willing to do some coding.

I'm a computer science student who previously did a maths degree, and have a strong interest in AI, so I wouldn't mind taking a look at the AI coding.

	09-08-2003 00:46									#63
	Inflate your Upload Space

Put me down for map programming. There are a lot of things, I'd like to do there. Don't know which .cpp file that is though. Maybe worldevent.cpp?

	09-08-2003 01:16									#64
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Curiosity, excellent. Your maths degree will surely help you, and AI programming is so special, we really need someone for it.

	10-08-2003 14:24									#65
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Unfortunately, the one thing I lack is a copy of the game. Anyone know where I can lay my hands on it? Unless they're releasing all of the art etc. with the source, which I doubt.

	10-08-2003 16:38									#66
	Increase Your PM Length

I believe that several online shops like Amazon, and others mentioned at the bottom of this page still ship it.

	10-08-2003 20:15									#67
	Remove this text

Or if you live in a civilized country, a game store discount bin might be a good choice.

	10-08-2003 21:04									#68
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well I saw it recently, just the CD without a manual on paper (OK it isn't so good anyway) and without the technology poster (well that is a little bit more valuable). So only the CD for ten Euros, in my opinion ten Euros is a little bit too high, five Euros would be more adequate. Especially you consider that the game is full with bugs and Activision will never release a patch that will fix the most urgent ones. So the discount bin might be a good choice but only if the price is right.

-Martin

	10-08-2003 22:05									#69
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I still see it, on and of, in high street stores for between £5 and £10.

	10-08-2003 22:56									#70
	Suffering from ads?

ebay probably, thats where i got a copy of ctp1 the 2nd time i bought it.

I see CTP1 much more in shops than i do CTP2, i always see a battered copy of the prima official guide for CTP1 too, which is poo.

	11-08-2003 15:54									#71
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Thanks guys, the bargain bins weren't lucky (clearly Ireland isn't really a civilized country ) but Maquiladora was correct - ebay has a gadzillion copies available.

Martin, I'm buying the game purely so I can help write the patch!

Hmmm, there's something severely wrong with that, when ya think about it....

	11-08-2003 20:37									#72
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Curiosity Martin, I'm buying the game purely so I can help write the patch! Hmmm, there's something severely wrong with that, when ya think about it....

Might as well download the latest patch and play a Mod while you wait for the code. At least you'd get used to the features of the game.

	11-08-2003 22:25									#73
	Increase Your PM Length

Glad you managed to get it.
Its a great game, if you like civ type games, and i agree with Hex that you should play a few games. Maybe even play it unmodded first just so you are aware of the changes the Mods make to the game.Have fun

	12-08-2003 01:20									#74
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Curiosity Martin, I'm buying the game purely so I can help write the patch!

Actual my point was to buy it for a good price, and not for too much.

-Martin

	12-08-2003 02:15									#75
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It's really funny, though, going and paying money for copy of a software that one is going to fix later .

	12-08-2003 15:03									#76
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Don't worry guys, I'll be playing the game a bunch too. If I'm working on the AI then I really need to get up to a high skill level fast (y'all have a couple of years head start!) so expect lots of stupid questions in the strat forum.

	12-08-2003 22:19									#77
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm noticing on my computer CTP2 takes a lot less memory or time than civ3. It cant be graphics so what is slowing civ3 down, I hope the apolyton patch wont have this effect...

	12-08-2003 22:48									#78
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, CtP is smaller than Civ 3... less art, I guess is used. And the absence of AI surely helps .

	12-08-2003 23:23									#79
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by E I'm noticing on my computer CTP2 takes a lot less memory or time than civ3. It cant be graphics so what is slowing civ3 down, I hope the apolyton patch wont have this effect...

The path finder is Civ III is a massive memory eater. If you are giving a pathed move order to a unit, notice how long it takes the path to catch up to where you have moved your mouse.

	13-08-2003 00:02									#80
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

And another thing with Civ 3 is AI patrols. While Civ 3 AI is much more effective than CTP2 AI (not taking mods into account), it still moves all of its non-garrisoned units around every turn. Basically patrolling his own land, which is stupid, given how there's no fog of war in your territory.

I hear that the latest patch allows you to disable such patrolling, which is said to decrease turn times by a lot.

	13-08-2003 02:54									#81
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Solver And another thing with Civ 3 is AI patrols. While Civ 3 AI is much more effective than CTP2 AI (not taking mods into account), it still moves all of its non-garrisoned units around every turn. Basically patrolling his own land, which is stupid, given how there's no fog of war in your territory. I hear that the latest patch allows you to disable such patrolling, which is said to decrease turn times by a lot.

Even more stupid if you consider Civ III has are no stealth units patrols can accidentally bump into - which (as someone who knows nothing about programming, AIs, etc.) assumed the patrolling was for.

	13-08-2003 03:01									#82
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: I'm noticing on my computer CTP2 takes a lot less memory or time than civ3. It cant be graphics so what is slowing civ3 down, I hope the apolyton patch wont have this effect...

Civ3 is poorly programmed.

	13-08-2003 03:20									#83
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Civ3 is poorly programmed.

What isn't these days?

	13-08-2003 03:26									#84
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Very true...

	13-08-2003 04:00									#85
	Put an end to popups!

Yeah, but it's not the design team or programmers faults it's poorly programmed, it's the rush to have to get the game out on publisher schedules. That causes designers and programmers to take the first solution, not necessarily the most efficient one.

Sometimes I think publishers should just piss off and let a game company actually work a game to completion!

	13-08-2003 05:36									#86
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Dale. Most of the time, I hate publishers. I hate Infogrames/Atari - they have caused a few of screwups with Civ 3. I hate Activision publishing dept. for pressing on CtP2 developers.

	14-08-2003 00:00									#87
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes it is a sad state when these companies are basically screwing up everybodys fun, and in the long run will drive more of their customers away, people like me.
I'm not sure when the power-shift took place, but basically if you are a games designer/programmer in the industry today, to sell your game in the high street market you need one of the big publishers. And as i understand it they will own you and your game as soon as you sign that dotted line.
Its sad to think of all those creative minds out there, working in a potentialy huge creative field, having themselves and there ideas treated with much less respect than their peers in the art world or amongst novelists.The publishing houses seem to be behaveing just like pimps, secure in their relative finacial muscle.
And the more i hear about and witness their mis-management of 'our'(we created it by buying the produce) industry, the less main-stream software i end up buying......you'd think with the rate at which companies in this industry come and go, someone would put two+two together and understand why and how to put things right....

ON TOPIC:
So i guess untill we hear some news none of us can do much in our respective areas.........still it gives us more time to discuss the things that need to be done to get this game perfect polish polish polish - we'll polish it forever

	14-08-2003 16:01									#88
	Increase the size of your Attachments

We have no source code in our hands nor a promise for that. It will have to go through top managers and several departments before any decision is made and that would take time.

It could be decided to release part of the source, under strict control and/or limitation or not release it at all. If I was Activision and had no purpose to revive the Call to Power series I would release the code but hold the rights.

I am optimistic and I think that would be the case but bare in mind that holding the rights would mean that no sequel to the series or distribution of the entire code with any changes as is or compiled could be possible without the permission of Activision and in the event of no profit I would doubt they would give it. So all I can see right now is patches correcting bugs and more sofisticated mods and addons.

Perhaps in the future - if the source code is released to the public after all - some company would buy the rights and continue the sequel using the code (I would if I could ) or this community come to an agreement with Activision or someother publisher to develop a sequel and release it commencially.

I do offer myself for the project lead but very few know me here. I am well known in the CtP1 community and it is CtP1 that I have great knowledge about and not CtP2.

In any case it is in my belief that more than one projects would derive from the release of the source code perhaps even in this site and some effort should be put ot merge these into a single one.

	14-08-2003 16:26									#89
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Its sad to think of all those creative minds out there, working in a potentialy huge creative field, having themselves and there ideas treated with much less respect than their peers in the art world or amongst novelists.

The difference with novelists is simple: Most publishers are limited to niche novels (f.e. police, sci fi, fantasy, romance, pornography, sometimes this is not by genre but something less tangible) and there are many many many of them. Plus many novelists don't make a living out of their books. This can be a passtime, or a partial remuneration. Games, on the other hand, require lots of people to code, draw, etc. They are becoming increasingly complex, so people who work on games as a passtime can't compete. Publishers are not that many either. There are a few big houses, but usually they all do all kinds of games. Some exceptions exist, like Strategy First, but they are quite unable to sell outside the U.S. or get translations done.
What this means is: You need money to get a game started, and if it is crap, you have to get some money out of it anyway. For novels, if the novel is crap, the publisher won't publish it, but they won't have lost a cent either. What publishers need is to buy the game after it is done, not to fund it. That way, they could say 'Who wants to make CtP3', get their hands on several projects, and pay only the most successful project, or not at all. Developpers and designers would then have to make a better job to get paid. But that would be very hard for them because they don't have the money to do so.

	14-08-2003 17:18									#90
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Keygen I do offer myself for the project lead but very few know me here. I am well known in the CtP1 community and it is CtP1 that I have great knowledge about and not CtP2.

I second that . I'm sure Keygen has what it takes to be project leader (mostly dedication) and the slightly more distant stance could be an advantage.

Besides, noone else has offered to take the job, so Keygen must be the best of the bunch .