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Saint Marcus is offline Saint Marcus
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Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:29
  Old Post 30-07-2003 01:52 Visit Saint Marcus's homepage!
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Europe takes aim at U.S. space monopoly Get a bigger avatar today!

PARIS, France (Reuters) -- In sectors ranging from aviation to mobile communications, Europe has come from nowhere to challenge the United States where it once dominated.

Now, experts are wondering if Europe may again be poised to catch the Americans napping -- this time in space.

At the end of May, the European Space Agency announced it had secured backing from its member states to launch Galileo, an independent European satellite constellation that will rival the U.S. military's GPS global positioning system.

For a quarter of a century GPS satellites have hovered 12,430 miles above the earth's surface, sending signals that are now essential for guiding mountain climbers, pilots and army generals alike.

In the war in Iraq, an estimated 60 percent of the bombs used by the United States were GPS-steered weapons.

And GPS-based timing information facilitates international financial transactions and plays a key role in the functioning of the Internet.

But GPS now looks vulnerable.

Because the United States has focused on its military applications, Europe is seizing an opportunity to build a new system tailored to civilians, which now outnumber military users 100 to 1.

In contrast to GPS, which is run by the Pentagon, Galileo will be run by civilians. It promises greater continuity and broader coverage than GPS, potentially giving it a leg up in key applications such as traffic management.

"The United States could end up ceding leadership in civil navigation to Europe," said Jeffrey Bialos, former head of the U.S. delegation for negotiations on GPS and Galileo and an official at the Pentagon under the Clinton administration.

U.S. officials have accused Europe of creating an unnecessary duplicate system and worry about plans to position Galileo signals on the same frequency used by GPS for military purposes.

Europe's answer has been that Galileo will be a purely civil system. But comments from top European officials demonstrate that strategic considerations have been paramount in going ahead with the project.

In December 2001, French President Jacques Chirac said European countries would become "vassals" of the United States if they did not build their own navigation system.

More recently, wars in Kosovo and Iraq reinforced the notion in European capitals that continued dependence on GPS could compromise European sovereignty.

Concerns that the United States could deliberately jam GPS signals that Europe has come to depend on also grew during the Iraq conflict, in part because of the transatlantic tensions sparked by the war.

"The war in Iraq underscored how weak Europe is in using space applications for defense and security purposes," said European Research Commissioner Philippe Busquin, speaking in Paris at the end of June.

David Braunschvig, a managing director at Lazard in New York and an adjunct senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, believes Galileo would be made available to a future unified European defense force if it takes shape.

For example, future European peacekeepers and soldiers in areas like the Balkans could use Galileo to define their positions or guide their weapons.

"Galileo is positioned as civilian but could easily evolve to become strategic," said Braunschvig, who co-authored a recent article in Foreign Affairs magazine on Galileo and GPS.

Galileo is only one element of a broader European drive to bolster its role in space and lessen its dependence on the United States.

Unhappy with the quality of satellite imagery supplied by the United States during the 1999 Kosovo conflict, Germany has embarked on a program to build radar observation satellites that will complement those already operated by the French.

In late May, European governments pledged more than $1.1 billion to help the Ariane-5 satellite launcher program better compete with U.S. rivals like Boeing and Lockheed Martin.

Europe's drive must be put in perspective. It currently spends about $6.8 billion annually on space versus U.S. expenditures of $36.8 billion a year.

The United States accounts for some 95 percent of the money spent around the world on military-related space projects.

But Europe's space initiatives -- and a concurrent space drive in China -- come at a time when control of space is at the center of a debate on future U.S. military policy.

A 2001 Space Commission, chaired by U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, warned that the United States was vulnerable to a "space Pearl Harbor" and urged measures to ensure Washington's continued dominance in space.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 01:55 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Yeah. Right.

Az is offline Az
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 01:57
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The gap is still enormous, and 'Europe' still barely exists as a geopolitical entity, esp. in all military related. We'll talk when this changes, as well as the spending gap.

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
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Sep 2002
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 01:57
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Kinda old news--there was an article in Wired about this several months ago--but still cool.

(Europe is finally growing balls! Hooray! )

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 01:58
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YEAH......EU for World power! vote now!


but seriously...this is great news....

Sandman is offline Sandman
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 01:58
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Taking space out of the hands of generals is good for everyone. Let's have an even bigger civilian space programme.

Eli is offline Eli
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Jul 2000
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 01:59
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DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 02:02
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about that spending gap....what has the US to show for it, now a days? the adriane series to sending more commerial satellites in space then the shuttle does or any other rocket. and with the rosetta mission Esa/Estec will be the first company to land a craft on a astroiod.. all the americans do is build new spy sattelites and work on there 'star wars'-project....and where is the 'star venture' they have been talking about for over 10 years now

Az is offline Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 02:03
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Btw, if this wasn't understood from my previous post, I am PRO-EU superstate, PRO EU world power, and PRO EU space program increasing. I just don't see those things happening.


Btw, did anyone hear about the fact that the Chinese want to send a man into space this year?

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
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relative speaking Esa is getting more from its money then the Nasa does....i think...

DanS is offline DanS
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This is funny. European taxpayers wanting to throw billions of dollars down the drain. Hooray!

But hey, anything is worth assuaging Chirac's fears of France becoming a US vassal.

Last edited by DanS on 30-07-2003 at 02:18

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
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May 1999
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 02:18
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quote:
Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
relative speaking Esa is getting more from its money then the Nasa does....i think...


things cost more when you do them first

JOn Miller

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
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May 1999
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 02:20
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quote:
Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
about that spending gap....what has the US to show for it, now a days? the adriane series to sending more commerial satellites in space then the shuttle does or any other rocket. and with the rosetta mission Esa/Estec will be the first company to land a craft on a astroiod.. all the americans do is build new spy sattelites and work on there 'star wars'-project....and where is the 'star venture' they have been talking about for over 10 years now


you won't be talking smack when we unviel our death star



JOn Miller

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 02:24 Visit DanS's homepage!
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ESA doesn't do too much and spends a lot less money doing it. Russia does more stuff in space than the EU, for instance.

and where is the 'star venture' they have been talking about for over 10 years now

Canceled a long time ago.

Hueij is offline Hueij
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May 1999
time: 06:29
  Old Post 30-07-2003 02:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Miller


you won't be talking smack when we unviel our death star



JOn Miller

Death Star? A US Death Star?? You can't even land a small vehicle on Mars...

Keep on dreaming baby...

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
time: 23:29
  Old Post 30-07-2003 02:26
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quote:
U.S. officials ... worry about plans to position Galileo signals on the same frequency used by GPS for military purposes.
Eh? Why wouldn't they use a different frequency?

Hueij is offline Hueij
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 02:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
Btw, if this wasn't understood from my previous post, I am PRO-EU superstate, PRO EU world power, and PRO EU space program increasing. I just don't see those things happening.

I'm with you on the last part. However why we should strive to become a superstate or a world power is beyond me...

Az is offline Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 02:31
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creating a superstate will ensure that a single european identity will emerge, and remain strong throughout history, and will lessen the chances for war on your continent. world power? mostly because creating an alternative to the US would create competition between the US and EU, and that would lead to investments in the space program.

Hueij is offline Hueij
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 02:48
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I guess this is way off topic, but there will never be a single European identity, we are all too different. There will be a point at which we won't transfer any more power from the national level to the EU level. Anyway, except for some people in Brussels (Brussel, Bruxelle ) there is no one that feels "European". I'm Dutch first, Spiffor is French first, Andy is German first...

Menlas is offline Menlas
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Feb 2003
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 02:48
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Galileo

and, more generally, anything that can create competition in the space programs...it seems all is asleep since the end of Apollo program

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 02:53
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It's all good when it comes to discovering space and such. I don't care who does it, Americans, Chinese, Russians, Europeans... but it will be good for all the human kind. I don't care what the nationality of the person is who invented antibiots. It's good for everyone.
And sure, the people who did it can take some credits too.

Saint Marcus is offline Saint Marcus
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 03:01 Visit Saint Marcus's homepage!
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quote:
there is no one that feels "European"


I do

when I go to the States, twice or so a year, and people ask me where I'm from, I reply "Europe, Holland" and not the other way around.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 03:07
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I answer 'Finland........ it's in Europe'
I wouldn't even mention Europe, if people would actually know where Finland is. I'm a Finn first and always will be. I am European too, but I don't feel it. What is European anyway? It's just bunch of countries. And I belong to one of them, and that's Finland. That's what I am and always will be. Only citizenship of the US will change it a bit, but then I'll be Finnish-American.
Maybe some day.. when I'm old I feel American only.
My kids will be Americans fully though.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 03:09 Visit DanS's homepage!
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It's all good when it comes to discovering space and such.

There is no discovery going on with Galileo. It will cost billions of dollars to cover the ground that the US has already covered.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 03:11
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
It will cost billions of dollars to cover the ground that the US has already covered.
For not even that signifigant a performance boost, IIRC.

BeBro is offline BeBro
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Mar 2000
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 03:19 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Hueij
I guess this is way off topic, but there will never be a single European identity, we are all too different. There will be a point at which we won't transfer any more power from the national level to the EU level. Anyway, except for some people in Brussels (Brussel, Bruxelle ) there is no one that feels "European". I'm Dutch first, Spiffor is French first, Andy is German first...


I think feeling "european" is nothing that excludes your national identity. Ideally, there should be room for national (and even regional) identities within the EU.

BeBro is offline BeBro
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
For not even that signifigant a performance boost, IIRC.


Then you guys have nothing to worry about

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 03:22 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Would you be interested in some Gemini spares ?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Jun 2000
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 03:22 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Haven't all of Europes rockets blown up on the launch pad?

Paul Hanson is offline Paul Hanson
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Aug 1999
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 03:23
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They sorted out the fault that caused that, IIRC.

 
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