 |
| |
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
 |
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:30
|
|
Re: German designs on the U.S.
I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that Germany had any plans on invading and conquering the U.S. I'm amazed at the notion, actually, since it has been shown rather conclusively that Germany was incapable of even invading and conquering the U.K., which was only a channel's distance away.
On the contrary, Hitler expressed dismay at the war with Great Britain. He had viewd the Anglo-Saxons as the brothers of German Aryans, ethnic equals who should be allies, not enemies. Considering the U.S.'s predominately WASP population, I think it's safe to say his attitude was similar to Americans.
Germany and Japan getting the bomb in time to be a threat? Not remotely. Germany's nuclear program was nascient when the hard water supplies were lost, and then it was totally abandoned. Hitler had driven away the best and brightest physicists. Their espionage in the U.S. was laughable. Japan didn't even have a nuclear program, IIRC. And there wasn't any way Japanese spies were getting into sensitive Manhattan Project secrets.
Had the U.S. been totally isolationist and not sent any aid to the U.K. and the Soviet Union, I'm not convinced the Nazis wouldn't have won. I think there's a compelling argument to be made that U.S. help tipped the precarious balance on the Eastern Front, while it sustained much of the U.K.'s resistance. Regardless, I think Hitler would have been unable to retain what he had conquered for long. Even with victory, the Eastern Front would have drained so much from the German military power that it would have a devastating effect on the future cohesion of the Nazi empire. Remember that uprisings were frequent, and the Nazis spent considerable resources just quelling rebellions in occupied territories. The Nazi empire was doomed to collapse.
However, hindsight is 20/20, and we're looking at this with our own eyes instead of those of the people at the time.
First, the American population overwhelmingly opposed Nazism and favored supporting the U.K. in its war effort. Our representatives dutifully fulfilled the wishes of the electorate. Second, by the time Pearl Harbor came, most Americans already favored direct intervention. Once again, democracy spoke. You see, regardless of our analyzing of the threat, to the people at the time it was a huge threat. They had no way of knowing that Barbarossa was the colossal mistake as we know it is today. They had no way of knowing of the potential collapse of Nazi control. All people saw was this fascist empire gobbling up a large chunk of the world. Considering attitudes that probably came down from WWI regarding German military aggression, I can't help but think people thought that if they didn't stop them at this point, they would keep coming back again and again, waging more wars. I also believe that if American public had been aware earlier of the true extent of the Nazi genocide, we would have had even stronger public support for the war.
I think WW2 was probably the only international war we've fought that was morally justifiable. The price of allowing Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan to establish tyrannical, murderous hegemonies over huge swaths of the world was just too much, and it was indeed a threat to U.S. interests, if not immediate national security, as well as the interests of the world in general. Even so, standing up to Hitler required a transcending of notions of purely national interests and a care for the well-being of people everywhere.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
David Floyd
|
|
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:30
|
|
quote:
Um... since David himself SAID this exactly when I asked him a few months ago! |
Let's clear this up right now. What I said, and what I believe, is that the type of government is irrelevant. All that concerns me is whether or not individual rights are being protected. If this is being done in a democratic state, then so be it, and if this is being done in a dictatorship, so be it.
There are valid arguments, of course, that a democracy and a dictatorship can both cease to protect individual rights at any time, as neither is, on its own, prevented from doing so.
That is why I support a very specific, very strong Constitution that is extremely difficult to change, that prevents individual rights from being infringed by the government (or anyone else).
This is the only important factor, in my opinion - I don't necessarily consider the right to vote a natural right in the same way I consider liberty a natural right. Voting is nice, but voting should also be largely irrelevant. because in a perfect system, no matter how many votes there are, the voters still cannot infringe upon individual liberty.
Boris,
I strongly agree with the first half of your post, dealing with Japanese and German designs on the US. You said it better than I did 
One minor correction, Japan DID indeed have a small atomic program, but it never really made any progress and it got started pretty late in the game.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
David Floyd
|
|
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:30
|
|
Berzerker, regarding trade with belligerants, I don't believe that the US government should have stopped trade with either Great Britain or Germany, or anyone else. Private companies should be able to trade with whomever they please. If Great Britain stops US merchants from trading with Germany, that is aggression against the US, as is Germany stopping US merchants from trading with Great Britain.
Now, I would say that trading in war material with either side is extremely inadvisable, and can easily be construed as a hostile act, so I can't say that I think we should have sold war material to Britain.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
David Floyd
|
|
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:30
|
|
Sure, me too, and hopefully US businesses and corporations would have felt the same way. Some wouldn't, though, such as Henry Ford.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
David Floyd
|
|
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:30
|
|
Yes, IBM as well.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:30.
Apolyton Time is 00:30. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
05-08-2003 22:26
|