05-08-2003 03:10									#1
	Replace the constitution :rolleyes: Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis I want to see the whole thing [the US Constitution] scrapped and replaced.

Okay, I just found this intensely inane. Quick poll - do you support scrapping and replacing the US Constitution?

	05-08-2003 03:13									#2
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Someone cares what Victor says?

	05-08-2003 03:14									#3
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It is still one of, if not the, best Constitutions in the world.

	05-08-2003 03:16									#4
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It's only a document. As for being a document, it's great.

It's too bad no one's challenged all the new Patriot-Act like utter bullshit in court yet.

	05-08-2003 03:18									#5
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Someone cares what Victor says?

I haven't seen him too much, so I wasn't (still am not completely sure) if he's one of the COMPLETE morons

	05-08-2003 03:18									#6
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If you want to replace it, go to some little island and set yourself up.
Cuba comes to mind.

	05-08-2003 03:18									#7
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Absolutely not.

	05-08-2003 03:19									#8
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there's really no point in replacing it. between congress amending it and the supreme court re-interpreting it. its a pretty damn fluid document anyway.

	05-08-2003 03:30									#9
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while we're at it, lets just give the US back to the brits

	05-08-2003 03:40									#10
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Christ, talk about getting worked up over nothing.

	05-08-2003 03:41									#11
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Why bother? It ain't enforced now.

Also, there's a valid argument that since no one alive today signed the thing, we aren't bound by it anyway. There are some minor changes I'd make to the one we have, you know, like TAKE THIS DOCUMENT LITERALLY YOU BOZOS!

	05-08-2003 05:33									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Say, has any other country ever amended the banning of booze into its constitution?

	05-08-2003 05:34									#13
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Someone cares what Victor says?

That was my first reaction. I gave up serious attempts at debate years ago.

	05-08-2003 05:36									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Why bother? It ain't enforced now. Also, there's a valid argument that since no one alive today signed the thing, we aren't bound by it anyway. There are some minor changes I'd make to the one we have, you know, like TAKE THIS DOCUMENT LITERALLY YOU BOZOS!

Those are also my major points. I'd like to see a constitution that leaves a lot less up for interpretation.

	05-08-2003 05:38									#15
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The U.S. Constitution? Bah, such a frivuluous scrap of paper.

No really -- I can never forsee a great document like the Constitution being replaced.

	05-08-2003 05:57									#16
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quote: Those are also my major points. I'd like to see a constitution that leaves a lot less up for interpretation.

I agree. I'd also like to see a Constitution that is MUCH more difficult to change. This would eliminate silly amendments such as Prohibition.

	05-08-2003 05:58									#17
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd I agree. I'd also like to see a Constitution that is MUCH more difficult to change. This would eliminate silly amendments such as Prohibition.

Or silly amendments that abolished slavery?

	05-08-2003 06:00									#18
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd I agree. I'd also like to see a Constitution that is MUCH more difficult to change. This would eliminate silly amendments such as Prohibition.

I can't see how the constitution could get any harder to change. I don't think majorities in 3/4th of the states could be counted on to agree to much. This is another thing that I find stupid. I could live with 75% or 80% of the population, but 3/4ths of the states? I understand where that came from, but the reality of the 21st century is so different from the 18th.

	05-08-2003 06:01									#19
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Not at all, MrFun. The point is that we need to create a Constitution that puts individual rights above everything else - that is, guarantees their inalienability. Then, make the Constitution itself unchangeable, for all intents and purposes. That leaves you with a free system that can't be changed.

	05-08-2003 06:01									#20
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Victor -

My point is that even if 75% of the states want to ban alcohol, they still shouldn't be able to.

	05-08-2003 06:03									#21
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Not at all, MrFun. The point is that we need to create a Constitution that puts individual rights above everything else - that is, guarantees their inalienability. Then, make the Constitution itself unchangeable, for all intents and purposes. That leaves you with a free system that can't be changed.

A good, stable government is dynamic, one that can change over time. A stagnant government is bound to fall sooner or later.

	05-08-2003 06:03									#22
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States have powers as well, Galis .

This isn't a country that was founded as a whole and then broken up. It was founded by seperate entities (states) which joined together. Of course they should have strong power over the government. They created it!

It is like the EU... of course the European countries should have power over the body, because they made it.

	05-08-2003 06:05									#23
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EDIT: nm, misread.

There's a lot I'd like to see changed in the Constitution, but a lot I like enough the way it is, and since a rewrite could potentially make things a lot worse, I'd vote for keeping it.

	05-08-2003 06:05									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui States have powers as well, Galis . This isn't a country that was founded as a whole and then broken up. It was founded by seperate entities (states) which joined together. Of course they should have strong power over the government. They created it!

Giving states power makes some people's votes worth less than others.

	05-08-2003 06:06									#25
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quote: A good, stable government is dynamic, one that can change over time. A stagnant government is bound to fall sooner or later.

A stagnant government? I'm simply setting up a government that can't infringe on freedom. This fact alone doesn't mean the government is in any way unstable.

	05-08-2003 06:07									#26
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On the subject of States Rights, I strongly support the right of secession. On the other hand, I don't believe that any state has the right to infringe on individual freedom any more than the feds do.

	05-08-2003 06:07									#27
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd A stagnant government? I'm simply setting up a government that can't infringe on freedom. This fact alone doesn't mean the government is in any way unstable.

Unfortunately for you, I have this perception that libertarians want "tyranny of the majority" in the name of absolute, unbridled freedom.

	05-08-2003 06:08									#28
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd A stagnant government? I'm simply setting up a government that can't infringe on freedom. This fact alone doesn't mean the government is in any way unstable.

That's not what stagnant means.

	05-08-2003 06:08									#29
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quote: Giving states power makes some people's votes worth less than others.

Giving countries power makes some people's votes worth less than others.

	05-08-2003 06:08									#30
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Here here Boris! That's exactly what I was thinking.