22-08-2003 07:23									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I could have explained it myself...

I'm sure you could have. I was halfway through the post when I decided to check the dictionary.

	22-08-2003 07:29									#182
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Gee, les grenouilles are fond of a bell, aren't they?

France was once a very religious country and that can explain the high number of colloquialisms related to the bells, the church was the center of the village or the town. When you are visiting a village or a town in France you will often see that the old historical center and/or the wealthy medieval houses are around a church... hopefully this has changed.

	22-08-2003 07:57									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin France was once a very religious country and that can explain the high number of colloquialisms related to the bells, the church was the center of the village or the town. When you are visiting a village or a town in France you will often see that the old historical center and/or the wealthy medieval houses are around a church... hopefully this has changed.

Yes, now that you mention it, I remember the churches formed the hearts of the villages and towns. Same as in Italy, for the same reason.

	22-08-2003 13:29									#184
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quote: Shock you? Don't forget I backed these bastards before I discovered their forwards weren't the bees' knees!

That has been pretty obvious to myself and Tamerlin for a while – that they failed to take the win against a badly misfiring England pack was a key indicator to me.

I think their biggest problem is what you pointed out some time ago – the reliance on Carlos. He has a break now and he also has a history of coming back from breaks with a different personality. They rely on him so much that if he comes back in October slightly off the boil you can forget them as favourites for the cup I think.

quote: Mmmm. Well, there is a team that has won two WRCs, both in foreign climes, but you've always dismissed them as lucky.

Perhaps somewhat unfair of me – I do however firmly believe they were not the best side in the tournament either time they won it. Nor were the Boks. That’s cup rugby for you? I don’t recall much of the 87 Kiwi side but that does seem the occasion when the best side did prevail?

quote: And the site was down again this morning. That's every day this week between 8am and about 11am (my time), and usually longer.

Whilst I am fast asleep then. Is there a connection?
I am down to my last few post before September – so how does everyone else feel the England second line will do in Wales – and how mnay points will they beat France by next weekend too?

Havak retires having lit the blue touch paper that sets off Tamerlin’s infinite supply of

	22-08-2003 14:40									#185
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quote: Finbar was right – you pretty much nailed it all. It’s hard to see our forwards playing so poorly against you a second time – and we will pressure the line out.

We shall see. I still believe our forwards still have room for improvement, and I think they will improve before we meet Australia and England. Look how far they've come since last November, when our youngsters narrowly lost against a full strength England squad. Against Australia last Saturday there were some very good phases of forward play and they were unlucky not to score toward the end there. And lets also not forget how their defensive game has improved.

Mitchell knows it will come down to possession, and I'm sure he'll have Mealamu (who has always been known as a great around-the-field type hooker, but this season he has really improved his lineout throwing and scrummaging skills) and Chris Jack working very hard over the next month or two at their lineouts.

If we can get the pill flick flick flicking through our backs we will cut through your defences like always. England struggles in a defensive game - it's only the pressure you exert through your forwards and the boot of Johnny Wilkinson that wins you matches (and I'm sure the Kiwis have some special treatment reserved for him, he he he).

	22-08-2003 15:09									#186
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We weren't even close to full strength then - and your forwards looked what they were - second best. Only individual brilliance from some of the backs kept you in that game.

There defensive game has improved - but the English pack will maul them the length of the field as even the Wallabies managed some small mauling successes against you.

Your lineout will come under huge threat - all the English locks in the squad match Jack as a ball stealer (our domestic game is strong in set piece play remember).

But fair point - your backs can cut through any defence in the world. Similarly our forwards can smash holes in any team for the girlies to stroll through.

And wilko? He is a tough lad and frankly I rate him higher than I do Carlos for more than just kicking - he tacjkles a storm and your player targetting him may end up more badly hurt than Jonny does.

It's a huge clash of styles - I am so looking forward to it.

	22-08-2003 15:30									#187
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I think you're right about Spencer. He is my biggest worry - he can sometimes take wrong options, he struggles with penalties and conversions, and he is prone to the old 'lack of focus' syndrome. He is our most risky player, and I agree we rely on him too much - just as England rely on Johno.

What I'm getting at is that I see England at their best at the moment but the AB's still have room for improvement - and they ARE improving - I think we will start answering the questions in the tight games to come.

Have at you!

	22-08-2003 17:03									#188
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I have constantly answered the ascertion that England have somehow peaked with the very simple response of "no they haven't". I know it's hard to believe but they haven't played that well against the ABs in the last two victories - nor did they convert an overwhleming superiority over the Wallabies into a big win.

They are still improving all the time - so what we face here is the prospect of two continually improving sides going head to head whilst both are on good form.

As I say - it's a mouth watering prospect.

As for relying on Jonno - yes that is a huge problem for us. They just are not the same side without him. Maybe your guys should target him?

	22-08-2003 17:11									#189
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And just for Finbar here is the second string for tomorrow:

England: D Scarbrough; J Simpson-Daniel, J Noon, S Abbott, D Luger; A King, A Gomarsall; J Leonard (capt), M Regan, J White, D Grewcock, S Shaw, M Corry, L Moody, J Worsley.
Replacements: D West, W Green, S Borthwick, A Sanderson, A Healey, D Walder, O Smith.

Players back from injury that Clive is watching carefully for RWC duty are Luger, White, Moody, Smith and a certain Mr Healey.

	22-08-2003 17:13									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog I still believe our forwards still have room for improvement...

I hope so... for New Zealand's sake.

	22-08-2003 17:20									#191
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I am down to my last few post before September...

Don't worry, I am here to watch over this bunch of heretics.

quote: ... – so how does everyone else feel the England second line will do in Wales – and how mnay points will they beat France by next weekend too?

Poor wales...

About France, well, you know how can the french players be unpredictable... it is all or nothing. Where is the game played?

quote: Havak retires having lit the blue touch paper that sets off Tamerlin’s infinite supply of

The s are stored and used after the games only...

	22-08-2003 18:42									#192
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Keep up the good work Tamerlin

The game on 30th August is in Marseille - you don't lose there often. I am hoping England give you cause to roll out a few icons.

The Planet Rugby computer gives England to win by 48 points tomorrow - but of course it can't allow for the fact it's a second string. The Hack gives Wales by six points. I think he is an optimist. Sure it's a second string but it's full of lads playing to make to RWC cut and it is still a damn good side - England second strings have overcome Argentina and the Maoris and both are better than poor Wales - I can't see us messing this one up.

	22-08-2003 19:24									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Havak All the English locks in the squad match Jack as a ball stealer

They have to. Their hooker can't throw either.

	22-08-2003 19:27									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Don't worry, I am here to watch over this bunch of heretics.

Good grief. The biggest lunatic takes over running the asylum.

	22-08-2003 19:28									#195
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Just remember Havak... ... that we have McCaw. He is quick - he will get under your English mauls quick as lightening and bring them down. It will then turn into a ruck and so will get spun out to your backs who will then face our backline Magicians, as Finbar put it, who made some crunching tackles on the Aussies last weekend.

Also, it will be a hard ground in Aussie at that time of year. That will suit Spencer to a tee, and sorry but Johno relies on his kicking.. Spencer has that killer instinct and he loves to run it when he can.

Dam I’m starting to drawl!

	22-08-2003 19:31									#196
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quote: Originally posted by Havak And just for Finbar here is the second string for tomorrow: England: D Scarbrough; J Simpson-Daniel, J Noon, S Abbott, D Luger; A King, A Gomarsall; J Leonard (capt), M Regan, J White, D Grewcock, S Shaw, M Corry, L Moody, J Worsley. Replacements: D West, W Green, S Borthwick, A Sanderson, A Healey, D Walder, O Smith.

Mmmm. Bucket Mouth earns a bench spot for the Second XV. Presumably he would run on with a Third XV?

	22-08-2003 19:34									#197
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog Also, it will be a hard ground in Aussie at that time of year.

And stinking hot. Mid-winter and it's already averaging mid-20s in Brisbane. I fear the NH teams will really struggle in the heat. Particularly those with ageing packs.

	22-08-2003 20:00									#198
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Um - the French pack is fairly young and we have some young players fit again too.

In any case our Dad's army could play 160 minutes against any SH pretenders and still run rings around them.

Is there a pinochio icon?

quote: he will get under your English mauls quick as lightening and bring them down

Quite illegally of course. Not that I’m surprised.

McCaws a good lad – but Backy is better even now – and Backy in his prime was far better – though McCaw may season some yet.

I’m really hoping Moody is fit because them McCaw will be speared off the ball all the time.

quote: who will then face our backline Magicians, as Finbar put it, who made some crunching tackles on the Aussies last weekend.

You know our back line is a little better than I make them out to be. Having said that we are going to triumph in the forwards anyway – a magician is useless without his wand.

quote: and sorry but Johno relies on his kicking..

Now that is funny – I’ve seen Johno kick and it’s not his strong point – did you mean Johnny?

We are pretty used to seeing Wilko underestimated by the SH or written off as a kicker only (funny given Mehrts was never anything else?). I’m surprised a Kiwi makes the mistake now though – try re-watching the November game and watch as he chips your defensive line when Blair drifted – tell me Spencer has better vision or skill than that and I’ll be calling you a big fibber.

His boot is sublime, his hands are good, his vision excellent and his tackling quite shattering – Wilko is just damn good and has been for years. He’s ahead of the mercurial (but not proven consistent) Spencer at this stage – even when parts of his game misfire the kicking does compensate (see NZ in June).

quote: Mmmm. Bucket Mouth earns a bench spot for the Second XV. Presumably he would run on with a Third XV?

He’s on the bench as he hasn’t played since at all since early April – and has only played 60 minutes since November. They will run him to test his fitness and I’m afraid I expect him to make the RWC squad Finbar – he is too useful in too many positions and he remains one of the few players I have seen single handedly turn games. His personal qualities pout to one side I have a lot of time for the lad as a player. Strangely he is likely to come on a scrummy tomorrow.

I'm off now - enjoy the rugby gents - catch you all in September.

	23-08-2003 05:02									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Havak His boot is sublime, his hands are good, his vision excellent and his tackling quite shattering – Wilko is just damn good and has been for years. He’s ahead of the mercurial (but not proven consistent) Spencer at this stage – even when parts of his game misfire the kicking does compensate (see NZ in June).

Without any NH chauvinism I have to back Havak on this issue. Whatever the quality of Carlos Spencer, Johnny "Wilko" Wilkinson, is definitely the best fly half on the market. But watch for Frédéric Michalack, you will hear about him in the months to come...

	23-08-2003 05:06									#200
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I thought Havak would never leave! Now we can really bag his ageing Neanderthal team!

	23-08-2003 05:15									#201
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I am here and I won't let you do... :cerberuslook:

	23-08-2003 05:24									#202
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Without any NH chauvinism I have to back Havak on this issue. Whatever the quality of Carlos Spencer, Johnny "Wilko" Wilkinson, is definitely the best fly half on the market. But watch for Frédéric Michalack, you will hear about him in the months to come...

I don't think hemisphere chauvinism enters into it. IMHO, Wilkinson is the best fly-half currently going around. Maybe, a bit more than twelve months ago, I'd've ranked Steve Larkham better, because he was doing everything Wilkinson could do and more. Larkham is now, sadly, showing the signs of having been smashed a couple too many times.

I think we have to wait till after the WRC to know exactly where Carlos ranks in the scheme of things. He's a very gifted player - capable of magic in the same way Larkham was, albeit of a different kind - but the true test is being able to produce the goods consistently at the highest level, which is what Wilkinson has done. This is, after all, Carlos' first season - in this incarnation - at the top level and the season has only just started. I hope he can do it, because, as I've said before, rugby needs great players with his brand of magic.

	23-08-2003 05:25									#203
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I am here and I won't let you do... :cerberuslook:

*looks around, strains to hear*

Did someone speak?

	23-08-2003 13:49									#204
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I saw the second half of France-Romania yesterday (score 56-8). France only scored 3 tries in the second half. Apparently, they showed a nice game in the first, scroing five tries. I saw a replay of one pass by Michalak which was quite nice.
The problem here is the full back: Elhorga replaced Poitrenaud who is hurt, Brusque is hurt, and, of course, Pepito Elhorga hurt himself during the match. This means Traille (who play full back in Pau) played full back, and he's very good there (particularly, he managed to jump and get one ball in a very acrobatic manner), but if he was to play full back, we'd miss him as a center...
Romania is really less than the shadow of a team. They committed a number of knock-ons that is pitiful to witness. I think that only scoring three tries in the second half was a poor performance for the French.
The good news is that Michalak didn't miss any conversion (he passed the 7 he tried).

	23-08-2003 14:32									#205
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Romania is really less than the shadow of a team. They committed a number of knock-ons that is pitiful to witness. I think that only scoring three tries in the second half was a poor performance for the French. The good news is that Michalak didn't miss any conversion (he passed the 7 he tried).

I only saw the second half and France's performance was not good as you already said it in your post. Fabien Galthié lack of shape is becoming more and more worrying, I found him slow and not very confident of his choices. France's problem IMO is not about the individual qualities of its players but about the team as a whole, the players seem to have troubles working together where this is obviously the strength of teams like England or New Zealand. The real test is coming next week with France-England, wait and see...

	24-08-2003 04:59									#206
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I gather they ran in a length-of-the-field try along the way?

Oh, and I notice that England's 2nd XV fell in against Wales. Lucky for us Havak's on holidays.

	24-08-2003 12:34									#207
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NPC update:

Waikato -d- Wellington 23-18

Cullen's farewell game, and gets murdered by a thunderous Keith Robinson tackle. Waikato dominate in all areas. MVP: Entire Waikato Pack

Taranaki -d- Northland 34-12

Blowing a gale at the 'naki, shown by a penalty going from the far right side of the field all the way to the far left when directed right. 'Naki's forward pack crushed the Northland defence, which put up a bloody good fight against Canturbury last week.

Speaking of Cants...

Canterbury -d- Bay of Plenty 31-26

Last season's whipping boys were unlucky not to pinch the win and the Ranfurly Shield from Jade. Even game, Merts had a couple of line breaks, Blair notches 8/10 kicks.

Current Standings:
Taranaki
Otago
Auckland
Wellington
Waikato
Canterbury
Bay of Plenty
Northland
Southland
North Harbour

'naki are surprise leaders, but already the top 5 from last year are in the top 6, even with missing ABs.

	24-08-2003 12:40									#208
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Mehrtens started or came off the bench? I did read somewhere that Blair was designated goal kicker instead of him.

	24-08-2003 14:06									#209
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Mehrts started.

	25-08-2003 06:13									#210
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Hi all,

Ummm did anyone have the foresight to all their tickets last year? This latest round was a farce - I only managed to grab a couple to Argentina vs Romania (I know they were once good but now its flogging after flogging). I really should have got more last year I think.

Anyone really benefit from last week?

And another thing, Australia is no doubt in a slump of sorts but am I right in thinking they should be alright until the potential encounter with NZ in the semi finals? Even then...well, I suppose we'll see how much of a plus the home advantage gives them. Finbar, you're good at analysing their ups and downs, despite the bashing in the media (and to the Kiwis not long ago )they can regroup, can't they?