06-08-2003 17:08									#1
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Those bigoted protestants are at it again:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...on_episcopal_dc

Can you imagine placing an openly gay person on the throne of a bishop? Bigots! Surely this is just another example of the insufferable closed-mindedness of American protestants. Discuss.

	06-08-2003 17:09									#2
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the final problem wasn't he was gay but he had supposedly/allegeldy molested someone some time ago.

that blame was obviously withdrawn.

	06-08-2003 17:11									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion the final problem wasn't he was gay but he had supposedly/allegeldy molested someone some time ago. that blame was obviously withdrawn.

Actually there was an accusation that he had some connection to internet pornography, but there was no proof.

	06-08-2003 18:11									#4
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I consider the appointment of an openly gay bishop good news indeed.

	06-08-2003 18:14									#5
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Ditto

	06-08-2003 18:15									#6
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to the US Episcopalians for doing what they think is right and forcing the bigots to show their true colours.

to the Church of England for failing to take their chance to do the same a few weeks ago.

	06-08-2003 18:17									#7
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to Sawbones.

	06-08-2003 18:29									#8
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hmmm I'm a bit uncomfortable with gay bishops

	06-08-2003 18:33									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse hmmm I'm a bit uncomfortable with gay bishops

Because of the miter ?

	06-08-2003 18:33									#10
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I know what you mean AH - [sarcasm] What will be next? Equal rights for gays?!? What's the world coming to? [/sarcasm]

	06-08-2003 18:35									#11
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The question is, will it make Gays more receptive to religion?

	06-08-2003 18:41									#12
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Actually, I believe that it will...at least if you're Episcopalian.

	06-08-2003 18:41									#13
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well gay bishops is a bit "out there" don't you think?

	06-08-2003 18:42									#14
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Gay this, Gay that. I'm starting to suffer from Gay Fatigue.

	06-08-2003 18:45									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse well gay bishops is a bit "out there" don't you think?

I'm not sure what you mean by "out there."

	06-08-2003 18:46									#16
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I hope so, Wittlich.
A bridge was needed to span the gap.

	06-08-2003 18:54									#17
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I'm just honest - it makes me uneasy

	06-08-2003 19:13									#18
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I think you have self-doubts, AH.
Work throught it, would be my advice.

	06-08-2003 19:49									#19
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I'm uncomfortable with it too. Instead of proclaiming that homosexual acts aren't sins, then recognizing gay marriage, and lastly allowing a gay bishop (a series of events that would lend most legitimacy to the cause), what they are doing now is confirming a bishop who openly fornicates. Is this what passes for holy nowadays?

	06-08-2003 19:55									#20
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The other option is you say God makes mistakes.
Who are you to question ?
I'm sure He had a plan, and I for one won't question God.

	06-08-2003 19:58									#21
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Given that the general view is that humans (even Bishops ) sin all the time, and that God forgives those sins if we ask Him to, I'm sure the Episcopalians can manage to adapt and survive.

	06-08-2003 20:03									#22
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Bingo.

HA! Listen to this.
The Southern Rednecks have their stuff together more than the enlightened Yankees.

	06-08-2003 20:05									#23
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quote: I'm sure the Episcopalians can manage to adapt and survive

Of course, they can do what they see fit. I've no dog in this hunt.

	06-08-2003 20:06									#24
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I'm uncomfortable with it too. Instead of proclaiming that homosexual acts aren't sins, then recognizing gay marriage, and lastly allowing a gay bishop (a series of events that would lend most legitimacy to the cause), what they are doing now is confirming a bishop who openly fornicates. Is this what passes for holy nowadays?

Why do you think he openly fornicates? Being gay means that you are attracted to the same sex. It does not mean that you spend all of your time having sex with the same sex. Heterosexuals don't do that, and I'm sure there are probably a fair number those with the position of Bishop.

Thank you MtG, I was going to say that. According to Christianity, everyone's a sinner, and it can't be helped. Why is this sin focused on so much?

	06-08-2003 20:09									#25
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quote: Why do you think he openly fornicates?

I was under the impression that he lived with his lover.

	06-08-2003 20:45									#26
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quote: hmmm I'm a bit uncomfortable with gay bishops

AH - all Bishops are already gay, so I guess it just makes you uncomfortable to have it actually confirmed...

	06-08-2003 20:54									#27
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Bingo. HA! Listen to this. The Southern Rednecks have their stuff together more than the enlightened Yankees.

hey




I think it's fabulous that we finally have a gay bishop in a Christian denomination. A slap in the face for all the bigots out there.

	06-08-2003 20:57									#28
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the real question

Is it good for the Jews?

well on the one hand anything that advances tolerance, treating people as individuals, etc is good.

On the other hand the threat of losing a "moderate" protestant denomination, possibly to see it split into a left-wing group (do we need another one of those?) and a right wing group (do we need another one of those?) is bad

On the other hand, the left wing and right wing products of a schism are likely to be less attractive for Jews assimilating/converting out than the original unsplit church But the appeal of the Episcopal church in particular probably has little to do with Jews assimilating/converting out.

WRT to Israel : a left wing product of schism would probably join the left wing protestant anti-israel consensus But then the current Episcopal church is pretty much there already = a schism might liberate a pro-Israel right wing church (at least in the US) which is otherwise hidden, and would be more sensible then pro-Israel fundie churches On the other hand would even right wing anglicans be pro-Israel?
And would right wing anglicans be tempted into union with Rome - what would THAT mean for the Jews?


Altogether too many variables to say.

	06-08-2003 21:33									#29
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(sigh) i will never, ever, ever understand why being gay or straight is such an issue for so many people.

in the grand scheme of things, with the universe explosively expanding and human life's pace accelerating, this is like getting caught at one tiny little bend and then facing horrible shearing effects.

	06-08-2003 21:40									#30
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