17-10-2003 01:15									#61
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I'll have a look. If Margaritaville is right, then that's a hell of a guess The 3 with Liar's Lair go together in that format (significant overlap) so if something matches the positioning of those 3 exactly, then we have those too.

	22-10-2003 01:19									#62
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DBTS: What did you say to Miriam to get Non Math? How did you put it? I don't want to mess things up I'll trade with Angels first, but when it comes to Miriam, what do I say, and how to stop her closing dialogue box after selling Doc Ini?

	22-10-2003 01:26									#63
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well she asked for the tech.. i said: only for 25 Ec to cover blabla...then she didnt close and i could ask her to trade techs...she said what do i get i return...and you offer money

	22-10-2003 01:48									#64
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Sounds good

	22-10-2003 09:00									#65
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See the midturn save in your war thread (I opened the turn, sold Doc Init to Roze and to Miriam for 25 ec's each and also sold Ind Auto to Roze for 25 ecs then bought Nonlinear Math from Miriam for 150 ecs)

The rest of the turn hasn't been touched, so there is a diplo offer still on the table (from the Hive, I believe) plus units to move and build orders to give, etc.

All I did essentially was the AI negotiating stuff

G.

	23-10-2003 00:12									#66
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Thanks Googlie, much appreciated

	25-10-2003 01:10									#67
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I'll respond here to the comments in the Turn Report thread:

DeathByTheSword:

quote: its peace....

Why do you think so? From the basescreen infiltration information we have, there doesn't seem to be any PEACE base with land fungus in its south west.

Drogue:

quote: It should build an Impact Cruiser IMHO, since then we can take some of the undefended bases. Also we don't have stuff for the transport for a turn or two IMHO.

Whatever. I guess infiltration isn't that important, if and only if the Hive is gonna start providing us with lots of screenshots of all PEACE bases, their F7 unit information, technology information etcetera... If not, I think we should still infiltrate asap.
Btw, there already is a probe defence underway to Pi Square and another is being built in Apolyton Prime, so we can send send an infiltration team underway as soon as the transport in Pi Square would be finished.

	12-11-2003 01:49									#68
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Should we let the 2-1-8 cruiser make a detour to (80.44) as we'll likely discover a base then?

	12-11-2003 06:52									#69
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YES, a quick 2 spaces west should reveal who that is north of us, I suspect its the Drones and that out ship is inside of a Bay that is surrouned by a cressount shaped Drone Island. And north of the drones we would find the Hive someware up at north Pole.

If we do end up being in a bay then we should head south and continue Eastward and Northward, comiting this Laser Cruiser to exploration, also the East is more to contain unpoped Pods and the Islands of other factions.

	22-11-2003 04:48									#70
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I already moved the Laser Cruiser a bit west to see who was there, so we could discuss what action to take before a possible turnchat. The result is a PUT base called Monitoring Station. (Don't mind the graphics.)



The ship also discovered a shallows which can take us quickly back to the western seas without having to sail all around the Ruins peninsula again. So now my question is what route we should take next. Possibilities are:

• North to delve deeper into PUT territory
  
• West to get back to the western seas and perhaps tentatively explore PEACE territory.
  
• Follow the long southern route to explore our own southern coasts. We would then end up in Boolean Bay around the time our transport would launch its invasion.

	26-11-2003 03:00									#71
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Monitoring Station is one of the University default City names. Perhaps the University is not coming up with original names for their Cites but are insteda simply using the auto names. This could provide an insight into the order in which they founded their bases. Someone open up the University Text file and find out ware in the list Monitoring Station is, that tells us the minimum number of bases that they have.

By the way what kind of Garrison did the base have (you did remember to check that out right )

	26-11-2003 03:06									#72
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1-2t-2 green trance scout skirmisher

Edit: the presend file confirms my memory.

	27-11-2003 17:44									#73
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Interestingly, that Uni base is built on a Sensor Array - gues they are psycho for defence... Although that may not be a bad idea for US for the future.

Monitoring Station is basename #20 in the SMAX list, so I don't think they have just left it as is (unless they somehow have 20+ cities and yet their power is about the same as ours), instead they may have deliberately chose it as a default name they liked, or in order to confuse the rest of us!

I think that we should push a little deeper into PUT territory, then return after one turn of exploration to perhaps upgrade ready for the assault. The one thing worse than having too many troops is having too few.

Everything else looks good, I think.

	29-11-2003 03:50									#74
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Interestingly, that Uni base is built on a Sensor Array - gues they are psycho for defence... Although that may not be a bad idea for US for the future.

I agree. As for the reason we haven't yet used this trick ourselves: we've always had too little formers to be able to terraform ahead our future base locations. And with the coming war I doubt that will improve.

quote: Monitoring Station is basename #20 in the SMAX list, so I don't think they have just left it as is (unless they somehow have 20+ cities and yet their power is about the same as ours), instead they may have deliberately chose it as a default name they liked, or in order to confuse the rest of us!

When I have time, I'll check out a presend save of a few years back when we were still pacted to PEACE and PEACE already pacted to PUT. Then we can use the PEACE infiltrator information to check out how many bases PUT had back then.

quote: I think that we should push a little deeper into PUT territory, then return after one turn of exploration to perhaps upgrade ready for the assault. The one thing worse than having too many troops is having too few.

You mean sailing a full 8 MPs back to the north first or a bit less? Would you follow the coast line west or east of Monitoring Station?

Btw, I just checked. Upgrading our laser cruiser to a 4-1-8 costs 60 credits. To a 4-3-8 90 credits.

	01-12-2003 06:27									#75
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In response to the query about PUT bases, I have reuploaded the MY 2141 turn, IIRC the last turn we were pacted to PEACE and thus had access to their datalinks. Being pacted, we could also check part of the information they had about other factions. This is done by looking at the faction profile of a certain faction (using the commlink menu, right-clicking on a faction etc...), and then clicking on the PEACE faction icon in the box at the center bottom of the screen. That way we can derive PUT had nine bases in MY 2141, and fortunately not 20.

	05-12-2003 05:22									#76
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I'll respond here to Impaler's unit suggestions in the IAF thread:

quote: Laser Cruiser

IIRC in a previous chat you mentioned the possibility of for example a sea former being in the square just east of Alexandria, thus denying us access to Alexandria. That makes me think of a worst case scenario.
Suppose that there is indeed a sea former in front of Alexandria. Also suppose that PEACE became careful and for example has two garrisons in Alex. Our current plans are to attack with one impact cruiser, an impact marines and an amphib impact rover. In that case we would need the cruiser to disable the sea former. We would need the impact marine to destroy the first garrison. And the rover to attack the second garrison. But what if the rover is heavily damaged in the attack? Then we would have no unit left to take Alex, leaving us vulnerable to attack. Therefore I was wondering if it wouldn't be better to send the laser cruiser due south after all, to assure that almost nothing can go wrong?

quote: If we want 2 Probes in our attack

The one in BB and the one between AP and LL should make it IIRC.

***

As for ship names, what should they be?
Suggestions already made are (IIRC) Alpha Pi, Beta Pi, Love Boat, NodeRunner. Others could be for example "CCS Impaler" - the prefix of course meaning "Cybernetic Consciousness Ship.

	06-12-2003 18:49									#77
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I'll post a screenshot guide to deriving information on other factions, using the PEACE infiltrator information of MY 2141.

First select the faction profile of a random faction in the commlink menu. For this tutorial I will use the Hive:



After clicking on "faction profile" you get our standard information screen. As you can see the CyCon icon is highlighted and in colour in that center bottom box. However as we were then pacted with PEACE, we can select the PEACE icon in our faction profile screens. Click on the icon indicated by the red arrows:



Now you should see the faction profile of the Hive, this time viewed from the perspective of PEACE. We can now see some more information regarding their techs, bases, energy reserves etc, as the Hive is pacted with PEACE.



And thus ends the tutorial. I hope it was of use.

	22-12-2003 05:03									#78
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WARNING !!!

AI assumes Human powers

Similar to the AI offering bribes on behalf of human players in Council elections, the AI will also declare Vendetta on humans' behalf when a Pactmate is attacked.

thus (even though you seal a Pact this turn with the Hive) if and when you attack a PEACE probefoil and/or base the Hive and PUT (PEACE longtime Pactmates) will, via the AI assuming responsibilty, declare Vendetta on you.

All your units in their sphere of influence - and all theirs in yours will be returned to the nearest base. You might want to alert the respective factions that it is not you who has declared vendetta (they will only know of it when they open their turns)

G.

	22-12-2003 05:56									#79
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That is important to know. Therefore we must send a message to the Hive and PUT that this war is not against them, but that this is a game thing.

	30-12-2003 17:24									#80
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Drogue, I hope you don't feel offended by my message in the VoyForum , but I feel this is a team game and that therefore most decisions should be taken together if possible.

	30-12-2003 18:11									#81
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I am not offended, though I do need to clarify some things.

Firstly, I do accept that I went to far in telling them about the war in the first place. However as EAF, it was my job. Admittedly the consitution is not ratified, but that allowed the EAF to talk and work for thr good of the CyCon if he feels it is needed. Without a constitution, the EAF's job would seem to suggest he can discuss with ambassadors from other factions. I understand you feel I went to far, and on that occasion, you could be right, but I did it because I felt we needed nopt to surprise the Hive. And we got infiltration info out of it. And I did release the chatlog afterall.

I was not accused of cheating either, just of releasing too much info. HongHu may have done that. But she hasn't been cheating, as it is not against the game rules. Tass thought she was a CyCon spy at one point.

I do not mean to keep anything from the CyCon. I think we should make decisions together. But when a decision needs to be made, and no-one else is on the forums, the person withnthat job should be able to act, IMHO. That is what I did.

I do accept where I may have gone to far, and I toned it down after that, because I saw there was a few objections. I have never been accused fo cheating though.

As for the "general feeling of cycons", the only you disapproved and 2 thought it was the right action (Corellion and DBTS) IIRC. Telling them the war was bought forward two years was to stop them being surprised when we attack, since if we attacked before they were expecting it, it really doesn't help our credibility. It would have all been fine except Impaler's conversations with Kody soured things too much. We had already lost credibility, but attacking at a different time than they were expecting would have made things worse. We didn't lose anything by telling them that, and we saved a possible alliance.

In short, I have never been accused by anyone of cheating, but of giving too much information, by Impaler and Maniac for telling the hive about the 2 years before, and by Maniac for telling Jamski ages ago about the war. To my knowledge neither Tass nor Googlie has ever investigated me, and no-one has accused me of cheating.

Last edited by Drogue on 30-12-2003 at 18:17

	30-12-2003 18:44									#82
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I didn't mean to imply at all you cheated, if you thought that. Just that you sometimes released information without first mentioning it and asking if it's all right.

quote: Admittedly the consitution is not ratified, but that allowed the EAF to talk and work for thr good of the CyCon if he feels it is needed. Without a constitution, the EAF's job would seem to suggest he can discuss with ambassadors from other factions.

Of course. But IIRC the constitution also states that major decisions have to polled, or at least commonly agreed to. Telling about war plans seems rather major IMO. The EAF of course has emergency authority when there is time pressure or so, but being asked a nasty question in a MSN chat doesn't count as an emergency IMHO. As Impaler and I suggested, you should just answer that you are not authorized to reveal such information without prior consent of the Collective.

quote: As for the "general feeling of cycons", the only you disapproved and 2 thought it was the right action (Corellion and DBTS) IIRC

DBTS wrote this back then:

quote: to be honest...i would have like it if drogue asked us first to give the info to the hive...but hell nothing terrible has happened (yet )

Anyway, with the "general feeling" I was referring to the more recent dealings with HongHu. I haven't asked them about it directly so I could be wrong, but IIRC Impaler said he talked to MWIA and laurentius, and apparently they shared the same worry about sometimes sharing too many information without prior agreement.

	03-01-2004 19:28									#83
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i am ok with the plan of upgrading our cruiser to plasma steel for 210 Ec...workshop upgrade....it will make our cruiser defendeble...and much more powerfull

	09-01-2004 07:51									#84
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I'll make the EAF orders tomorrow. Nothing unexpected has happened, so the orders will be according to our previous plan to capture MVille.

	09-01-2004 08:19									#85
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I do have a few things to show though:

We need to take out this laser/synth foil. It could destroy the defender in Alex:

Also, remember there are 2 other laser/synth foils out there, and we don't know where. We have to be careful of them, they could take out one of our impact ships, or worse, take a base we've taken.

PEACE production data. Should Sealurk Channel become a higher priority because it will finish foil in 2 turns?


Great time to attack Margarittaville, since it is defended by two formers


This shows the production of Liar's Lair. It is building a cruiser probe. Does it need to be a higher priority now?

	09-01-2004 08:25									#86
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Ok, my upload isn't working. I'll send the files to Maniac via email and hope he can post them.

Edit: Or maybe it is. Who knows? Have sent to Maniac anyway, in case they don't work for people.

Last edited by Drogue on 09-01-2004 at 08:31

	11-01-2004 07:55									#87
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Maniac: You ordered the (95,55) Rover to move to (90,55) which doesn't exist. I presume you meant (90,56)? As suspected, with only 1/3 MP left, it didn't make it anyway, but just checking.

	11-01-2004 16:14									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Maniac: You ordered the (95,55) Rover to move to (90,55) which doesn't exist. I presume you meant (90,56)? As suspected, with only 1/3 MP left, it didn't make it anyway, but just checking.

Indeed. Sorry for that. Also sorry about not noticing about the Auroran scout patrol.

Regarding your screenshots, I would indeed prefer to capture SeaLurk Channel and Liar's Lair as soon as possible, respectively in MY 2153 and MY 2154. I'll talk more about it in the CyCon-PEACE war preparations thread.

	15-01-2004 12:12									#89
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Heres an idea

Lets move the Amphibius rover onto land and up to(55,67) the Sensor Forest north of Triplex. Their is a road their so it can get their with enough movment points to attack and easily kill the Peace former thats siting on the Energy Bonus. Then it can move onto the Monolith and be healed completly before moving into the transport the same turn.

The downside would be that the unit cant then partisipate in any attacks or Captures on that turn so Lair could be asaulted only with the 2 marines and thus not captured on that turn (unless PEACE dose something foolish). If the Mammoth were to move to Pampalona after picking up units in Triplex this would not be a problem though as it would have to spend a turn in the ocean between bases.

Right now it seems best to load up everything in Triplex and then move directly to Lair and capture it in one massive attack, move the transport into the city and sleep everything. Then on the following turn move to the coastal tile 2 spaces east of Little Accident and unload the troops directly onto the Monolith so as to heal them to full health, the Rover can also attack Accident but unfutunatly it cant be captured just yet.

The following turn we capute Accident and attack Henry Morgans Boot and likly capture it as well.

Meanwial....

In the South the Impaler Transport will likly not be able to capture Casablanca in 53. PEACE will likly move another former into the Base giving it a total of 3 defenders. Our Marines can destroy 2 of these easily in 53 but this will likly just be replenished on the following turns as the Sea Formers and nearby crawlers move into the base.

I propose that in 53 we also unload the Probe Team and Plasma Garrison onto the Monolith (if we attack from the south) or some other convenient space if we attack from the North (only possible if that SeaFormer moves). Thus the Plasma Garrison will be in position to make a Land capture when the base is finaly empty and the Probe Team can conduct any kind of covert activity we desire on the following turn.

Once Casablanca falls we can leave the Garrison behind and move everything north through the gap just to the west of Casablanca head either for Lair or Pampalona depending on how things evolve with the Mammoth and with PEACE's response.

	16-01-2004 04:20									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] The downside would be that the unit cant then partisipate in any attacks or Captures on that turn so Lair could be asaulted only with the 2 marines and thus not captured on that turn (unless PEACE dose something foolish).

I agree. And since they're building a probe cruiser, it's crucial we capture that base asap.

quote: If the Mammoth were to move to Pampalona after picking up units in Triplex this would not be a problem though as it would have to spend a turn in the ocean between bases.

As long as PEACE has barques, schooners, etc... isn't it dangerous to leave any unit in the open, especially a transport full of our best units?

quote: In the South the Impaler Transport will likly not be able to capture Casablanca in 53. PEACE will likly move another former into the Base giving it a total of 3 defenders. Our Marines can destroy 2 of these easily in 53 but this will likly just be replenished on the following turns as the Sea Formers and nearby crawlers move into the base.

The good news is that I tested succesfully that non-amphibious units can capture empty bases moving out of a transport. So we can use the plasma garrison for that. The bad news is that if PEACE indeed moved a third defender in, that plasma garrison won't be much of a help. How about then that we send a cruiser south to destroy that sea former, move CCS Impaler to Athena to pick up its boy scout, move further next to Casablanca and let the boy scout deal with the third defender, most likely a former? The former having -50% defence etc probably will lose against the boy scout, thereby emptying the base.