11-10-2003 04:16									#31
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

well, yes - excpet that it's dated - but if you do keep the 2141 save then you'll have access to their 2141 data

	11-10-2003 04:27									#32
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Hmm, I didn't know that PUT information yet. They have many techs to trade (or steal...)

Btw, do you guys know the trick how to find bases in unexplored territory? Normally when you click somewhere on the screen with your cursor, the screen recenters. However if while doing so you click on a tile in unexplored territory that contains a base, the screen doesn't recenter.
Using this method, I know there are bases in the squares (59.73), (81.77), (57.63) and (78.50). (81.77) is probably a Believer base, (59.73) is Alexandria, (57.63) I presume yet another PEACE base. (78.50) is an unknown source though. I suspect it might be a PUT base. Since PUT has so many techs we don't have, we might consider sending our first ship to that location if we won't have too many problems with PEACE then...

	11-10-2003 04:31									#33
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That'll be fine for me then

	11-10-2003 04:34									#34
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Nice trick Will have to check that out

	11-10-2003 05:30									#35
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Hoorah! Although the question is, will they be friendly (they are pactmates with PEACE, after all).

	11-10-2003 17:26									#36
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Maniac: As acting EAF, could you PM something like

quote: Hi Captain and Ambassador, Over the last few days there has been a lot of discussion among the CyCon about PEACE. Specifically regarding you stating that you did not want Applied Physics, when we offered them, both to settle our deal and for other trades, and yet you have traded for them with other factions. You have also continuously asked for more and more for techs, you language suggesting, and even JDM actually stating, that due to your early game advantage as 'traders', you must capitalise on this advantage by pushing for more and more, and playing factions of against each other. While we understand this, we do not feel that is a way to treat you Pact Brother. Therefore it is been decided by a CyCon majority that we should reduce our relations to a Treaty status. We will still honour our existing deals, and are still open to new deals, but we feel that in spirit we no longer act like Pact Brothers, and so feel a treaty is more appropriate. I am saddened to have to inform you of this, and I have tried to keep the Pact going for longer, but I was out-voted. We notice that you have pre-accepted Doctrine: Initiative in the diplomacy box. Could you explain to us why you have done that? Friendly greetings, Acting External Affairs Function (while DBTS is inactive) Mani Alpha-3

to Flubber and Herc between 10 and 12am GMT tomorrow. Details are found here, in the "When to cancel Pact with PEACE" thread.

Thank you

	12-10-2003 06:31									#37
	Increase Your PM Length

Maniac: I must retire for the night. I should be back on about 11/12am GMT ish. If I am not, and we have the turn, please post the PM you prepared between 10 and 12am GMT, or as soon as you get on if after that. I will play about 1pm, hopefully. That is all presuming we have the turn. Since the 12 hours grace is up at 9 this morning, Googlie should press end turn and forward it to us, so we should have the turn. If we do not have the turn by 1pm GMT, then do not send the PM, as Flubber may well be on. Wait until I come on, then if Flubber is not on, you can PM him, and a little later, I can plan the turn.

We want to make sure Flubber cannot respond to the PM before I play the turn. If needs be, we will have to PM him, then wait for him to come on, with the turn played, then post it, before he can respond. Or wait 'til he PMs back and I'll post soon after, saying that I had already played by the time I got the PM. Either way, it shouldn't be a problem. If the turn isn't give to us though, don't PM him, obviously.

Now that's a hell of a post that can be summed up in it's penultimate sentance

	12-10-2003 16:28									#38
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I have sent the PM. No Pirate is online at the moment.
In the in-game diplobox the PEACE player mentioned "See Ambassador Flubber communications". Therefore I added a little phrase near the end of the PM.

quote: Official communiqué: pact severance Hi Captain and Ambassador, Over the last few days there has been a lot of discussion among the CyCon about PEACE. Specifically regarding you stating in the past that you did not want Applied Physics, when we offered it, both to settle our old IndAut deal and for other trades. The reason you stated was because you had no use for such a level 1 tech. Yet now you have traded for Applied Physics with another faction. In previous trades you have also continuously asked for more and more techs and credits, your language suggesting, and even JDM actually stating, that due to your early game advantage as 'traders', you must capitalize on this advantage by pushing for more and more, and playing factions off against each other. While we understand this, we do not feel that is a way to treat your Pact Brother. Therefore it has been decided by a majority in the Cybernetic Collective that we should reduce our relations to a Treaty status. We will still honour our existing deals, and are still open to new deals, but we cyborgs feel that in spirit PEACE and the Cybernetic Consciousness no longer act like Pact Brothers, and so feel a treaty is more appropriate. I am saddened to have to inform you of this, and I have tried to keep the Pact going for longer, but I was outvoted. We notice that you have pre-accepted Doctrine: Initiative in the diplomacy box. Could you explain to us why you have done that? We have not received any communications from Ambassador Flubber. Friendly greetings, Mani Alpha-3 Second Function and therefore acting External Affairs Function (while DBTS is inactive)

	12-10-2003 17:12									#39
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Thanks. I am now online and will play Very well done Maniac

	13-10-2003 03:44									#40
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May I suggest we send our new Laser Cruiser to the (78.50) base location I pointed out earlier? A 2-1-8 can't do much harm against PEACE anyway. Best to use it as an exploration ship then. It might also be wise to rehome that ship to DBTSverse Portal when it visits that neighbourhood. Pi Square is losing minerals to support, while DBTSverse Portal only supports one unit.

Oh yeah, did anyway notice, using Googlie's trick, that PEACE is pacted to the Hive?

	13-10-2003 07:29									#41
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Soudns good I think exploration is the best use of it.

	13-10-2003 09:28									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Oh yeah, did anyway notice, using Googlie's trick, that PEACE is pacted to the Hive?

Well, you didn't need my "trick" to see that, as you were pacted with PEACE and just had to look at their profile to see they were pacted with the Hive (you could actually tell the date, by comparing old turns)

What my "trick" showed was that the Hive were pacted with the Drones, and have an "informal truce' with the PUT. Also, they haven't yet met the Believers nor the Angels - you know that by the absence of any comment re truce, treaty or pact with either in the Hive's list of relationships

G.

	15-10-2003 18:03									#43
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DeathByTheSword:

quote: EAF orders for '42: do NOT move the laser cruiser out in to the see...ONLY if it ends back in a base you can move the cruiser...i dont want peace knowing that we have cruisers.

Does that mean you disagree with this proposal?

quote: May I suggest we send our new Laser Cruiser to the (78.50) base location I pointed out earlier? A 2-1-8 can't do much harm against PEACE anyway. Best to use it as an exploration ship then. It might also be wise to rehome that ship to DBTSverse Portal when it visits that neighbourhood. Pi Square is losing minerals to support, while DBTSverse Portal only supports one unit.

I doubt there are any PEACE bases in the north, so they will probably not notice our 2-1-8. Besides, even if they saw it, would a hardly armed exploration ship be so unexpected? After all, they know we have Doc:Ini.

Googlie:

quote: "trick"

Just to clarify, by using the word "trick" describing your advise I certainly did not intend to give your tactic a pejorative connotation if you got that impression. I rather used the word "trick" to mean "a clever innovative tactic".

	15-10-2003 21:20									#44
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hmz...well ok you could send it up there...but i am afraid we get a very aggrassive response from PEACE about it...they have bases just west of the cruiser. ..so i hope they dont see it...but ok use it as exploation

	16-10-2003 04:07									#45
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I will use it as exploration, but wil keep it close to our land for the time being, until we have abetter idea where the PEACE bases are, looking at 2141 base screens.

	16-10-2003 04:49									#46
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We will have the Hive's commlink next turn. Indeed, as soon as buster agrees we will have it (before our next turn). Personally, I am in favour of a treaty (Pact ASAP) and offering Doc Mob, Doc Flex and Biogen, three techs they owe the Drones, for Eth Calc, Doc Loyalty and Gene Splicing. Also, we have commlinks they need. Unless they have the Believers and Angels, which I don't think they do, we have those as bargaining tools. They have PUT's commlink IIRC.

I propose we ask for a treaty and offer a three tech trade, as well as a commlink exchange (Believers, since we have given the Drones that too, and they are Pactmates - if we give them the Angels, they will trade it).

How dangerous is them being Planetary governor? If not that much, say we will give them the Angels commlink, the only one they lack, and vote for them in the Planetary Council, if they sign a Pact with us. If so, just ask for a Pact. I think we could have foung our natural allies. If we can get in on it, a multiway Pact of the Hive, the Drones and us could prove very lucrative

	16-10-2003 05:08									#47
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I dont' think it's very dangerous, and I think it will be a great sign of friendship to vote for them. All they'll get is a little extra ec.

Of course, we won't vote them supreme governor, that would be stupid.

	16-10-2003 06:18									#48
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Don't they get an infiltrator in every faction?

	16-10-2003 06:24									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Don't they get an infiltrator in every faction?

Yes, they would

	16-10-2003 06:33									#50
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In that case I think it would be too much. We know how much Kody can tell from little information. Imagine what he could tell from that

Ask for a Pact first, and if they won't, then offer the Angel's commlink (their last) as a sweetener.

	16-10-2003 08:46									#51
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Oh yeah... forgot about the infiltrator thing.

	16-10-2003 14:20									#52
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i think drogue should do the the first PM again. as faction leader and after that I will take over dimplomacy. Drogue offer them the tech switch right at the first contact so that we can have a deal soon.

	16-10-2003 19:57									#53
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Ok, sounds good. Also, it put the wrong techs earlier. Those are the techs they owe the Drones, but they have some of them

I've done a little table, of who has what we don't, and what we have they they don't.

The Hive have:

• Gene Splicing
  
• Doc: Loyalty
  
• Eth Calc

We have:

• Ind Base
  
• Soc Psy
  
• Doc: Ini
  
• HEC

Which 3 do I offer? I would say Ind Base, Soc Psy and Doc: Ini IMHO. If we don't trade Doc Ini, PEACE will as pactmates. Let's undercut them

The PUT have:

• Eth Calc
  
• SoHB
  
• Gene Splicing

We have:

• App Phys
  
• Doc: Ini
  
• HEC

We have that the Drones don't:

• Biogen
  
• Doc: Flex
  
• Doc: Mob
  
• Doc: Ini
  
• HEC

	16-10-2003 20:07									#54
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I dont think we want the Hive to win Govenorship, it will make them too powerfull as they are aredy far ahead. We should point this out to other factions (especialy the Drones) so as to peel away Hive votes.

We must face the fact that when the council is called we WILL BE INFILTRATED by someone as I am shure our population is too low to be a candidate for office. The Hive will definatly be a candidate but the other candidate is unknown, Pirates seem unlikly as they have a growth penalty like our own. If anyone has a prediticion on who will be in the vote that would be vary helpfull. At all costs we can not be inviltrated by a faction that would inform the Pirates of our upcoming war!!!

We might wish to delay calling the Counsil untill war preperations are nearly completed or focus diplomatic efforts to control the election outcome.

The ideal solution might be a 3 way aliance of Us, Drones and Hive with the Drones assuming the Govenorships with Cycon and Hive support. Our posittion would be that we would fell the alliance would be too unbalanced with the Hive as Govenor, we would give gifts to the Hive to compensate for loss of Govenorship and we would demand gifts from the Drones for our support of them. In return the 3 factions form a triumvarate. This senario is possibly only if the Drones are the other candidate faction ofcorse and alternate plans would be needed if a different faction is competing with the Hive.

	16-10-2003 20:12									#55
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Roze is the other candidate IIRC.

We can easily delay council. Not give the Hive Roze's commlink. Or make them pay through the nose for it. If they have anything we want. I want to be good friends with the Hive, but they are very strong, and being governor would give them too much power IMHO.

	16-10-2003 20:40									#56
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In that case I expect PEACE and the Drones would support the Hive inorder to leach inteligence from them.

Should we try to position the Angels are Govenors? If they get Govenorships will human factions be able to spy upon us if they Pact with the Angels?

We could delay the Council a bit but not very long, PEACE has all the com links and might call the Council at any time in order to get in good with the new Govenor.

Thoughts Opinions?

	16-10-2003 20:41									#57
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DBTS: I have no orders for the rover up with the Drone's scout. Have just kept moving it up, but is there anything else you would like me to do? There is an unexlored area to the South, and a link between islands to the West, going Northwards. IMHO, the latter is the best option, since we don't really need to move into Drone territory yet, but we would like to move further North to try to see where others are.

	16-10-2003 21:29									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] Should we try to position the Angels are Govenors? If they get Govenorship will human factions be able to spy upon us if they Pact with the Angels?

Only to the extent that you, for example, a couple of turns ago had access to some additional Hive and PUT data by virtue of your Pact with PEACE.

If you click on the commlinks tab and then right click on any faction leader, (call him faction A) you get basic common knowledge re that faction.

If you are pacted with another faction (call them Faction B) then you'll see their icon at the bottom of the faction A screen. Clicking on that icon (the faction B icon) brings up a screen with faction B's infiltration data on faction A. If they are in the same postion with faction A as you are there will be no difference to the screens.

However, if they are pacted with faction A, or are Planetary Governor then you get an expanded screen that give faction A's current research path, already researched techs (with * denoting those that faction A has that faction B lacks), a list of bases and base populations, plus all faction A's status with other factions that faction B has already met.

Sounds complicated, byt here's 2 examples taken from your last year of pact with PEACE, regarding the PUT (also a PEACE pactmate):


CyCon data on PUT






PUT data via PEACE Infiltration

	16-10-2003 23:57									#59
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I forgot Maniac had the co-ordinates of PEACE bases. I could then put them together to make the map much more accurate I will have to try that tonight.

	17-10-2003 00:10									#60
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I've checked it a bit already. Alexandria, Casablanca, Margarittaville and Tripoli are certainly right. Liar's Lair doesn't seem to be however. I didn't check for the other bases.
Also, would it be possible (57.63) is Sealurk Channel?