19-08-2003 23:26									#1
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Hudna.

	19-08-2003 23:28									#2
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Hudna.

	19-08-2003 23:33									#3
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abbas: dismantle. NOW.

	19-08-2003 23:37									#4
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Abbas won't do anything.


From what I was reading, Israel is ever closer to ridding of Arafat, and the USA is saying it's a shame we haven't done so earlier.

edited update

105 injured (so far)
15 in severe to critical conditions
15 dead

Last edited by Sirotnikov on 20-08-2003 at 00:38

	19-08-2003 23:38									#5
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A double bus exploded.

Many many casualties.

There are reportedly dead among the casualties.

	19-08-2003 23:40									#6
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Who cares about where Arafat is? It's a threat Israel always uses, but seriously, how will it hurt terrorism?
The threat to invade Gaza and wipe out the Hamas leadership worked very good and we got a Hudna, but who cares about Arafat?

	19-08-2003 23:42									#7
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7+ dead.

	19-08-2003 23:47									#8
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What is a Hudna ?

	19-08-2003 23:47									#9
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Arafat's disappearance will stop Palestinian money from pouring into terror, will cause mass disorganization in the Fatah ranks, which are seriously the drive behind most of the attacks in 2003.

Plus it will weaken Palestinian political stance to a small bit.

And yes, we will probably very shortly begin the head hunt of Hamas leaders

	19-08-2003 23:51									#10
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Hudna: roughly translated as a cease fire.

In moslem culture: a temporary tactical cease fire declared by moslems in a war of Jihad, in order to regroup and reorganize. In the Koran, when Mohammed fought against Saudi leaders who were stronger, he signed a hudna, and then prepared himself to a later stage when he broke it and attacked.

In current events: an agreement of understanding between the PA and the Hamas and Jihad, about 'stoping the inter palestinain struggle for the greater good of the palestinian goal' but only 'as long as the Israeli side does xx and yy'.

That is to put it nicely: "we're taking a brake attacking Israelis to re-organize and restart the conflict when we feel like it. If the Israelis try to stop us, we'll blame it on them."

	19-08-2003 23:52									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor What is a Hudna ?

a sort of arabic cease-fire.



Oh, and no, I don't think we should kill Arafat. I agree with Eli.

	19-08-2003 23:55									#12
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Hold onto your hats, Israelis - because a young canuck just might be coming to kill him for you!

...I'm allowed to do that sort of thing even before joining the IDF, right??

	19-08-2003 23:55									#13
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Did anybody expect anything better from the Hamas et al ? I thought nobody in the whole Israel / Palestine area ever had illusions over the cease fire ?

	19-08-2003 23:56									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Hudna.

Huina

Road map can be considered canceled.

	19-08-2003 23:59									#15
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quote: Hold onto your hats, Israelis - because a young canuck just might be coming to kill him for you! ...I'm allowed to do that sort of thing even before joining the IDF, right??

No, and if you will do that you will be arrested and tried.

Unless a group of fanatical Israelis will find you and hide you first.

	20-08-2003 00:01									#16
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Well at least your new avatar has a sense of humor!

	20-08-2003 00:04									#17
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Our trouble, that Jewesh religious fanatics fight Israeli democracy, not Palestine.

	20-08-2003 00:05									#18
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The IJ will claim responsibility. That's obvious.

	20-08-2003 00:07									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Eli The IJ will claim responsibility. That's obvious.

Yes, IJ just dont want Rammalah to be controled by Abu Mazen

	20-08-2003 00:11									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Did anybody expect anything better from the Hamas et al ? I thought nobody in the whole Israel / Palestine area ever had illusions over the cease fire ?

Even Bush and co. don't support our BASIC DEMAND THAT WAS IN THE ROADMAP, to dismantle the terror organizations, since "the Hudna holds water". This was really a matter of time. Actually, it already started some time ago. don't you remember the twin suicide bombings a week or so ago?

But Abu Mazen says that he won't fight them.

quote: ...I'm allowed to do that sort of thing even before joining the IDF, right??

Seriously, No need to kill Arafat.

	20-08-2003 00:11									#21
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In any case, if the 13+ dead report is true. Hudna kaput.

	20-08-2003 00:15									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel But Abu Mazen says that he won't fight them.

Well the threat of a Palestinian civil war I wasn't sure I could win yet, would make me a little gun shy as well.

	20-08-2003 00:17									#23
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Did anyone really expect a ceasefire to hold given political realities?

	20-08-2003 00:19									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Did anybody expect anything better from the Hamas et al ? I thought nobody in the whole Israel / Palestine area ever had illusions over the cease fire ?

abbas and the PA said they did. the US went along grudingly. AFAIK, the EU and most of its member states expected it to work.

In fact id be willing to wager that tomorrow morning, if the Israelis go in, the EU will condemn them for violating the Hudna.

	20-08-2003 00:21									#25
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Did anyone really expect a ceasefire to hold given political realities?

certainly they did - why when Israel insisted that Abbas live up to his road map prommise to dismantle the terrorists as quid pro quo for concessions, did everyone say that this was Israeli obstructionism, and unnecessary in view of the hudna?

	20-08-2003 00:24									#26
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Just look at the numbers of Palestinian "policemen", and the vastly superior operatives he has on Hamas. he CAN take out Hamas' top echelon in two night.

	20-08-2003 00:28									#27
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark abbas and the PA said they did. the US went along grudingly. AFAIK, the EU and most of its member states expected it to work.

Well, Abbas hasn't enough power to say anything else, but I'm surprised by the others' reaction. I still don't get why the terrorist groups are considered as possible disuccion mates. Their aim is to destroy Israel pure and simple, and every concession they'll make will be temporary and tactical.
Discussing with them may provide a temporary truce, but they'll never be satisfied until Israel is disbanded and Israelis are sent to the seas You can't discuss with these people. You have to cut off their financial and moral support, and physically destroy its key members

	20-08-2003 00:29									#28
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at least 15 dead.

80 injured delivered by ambulances (numbers expected to rise as private cars reach the hospitals)

20 people in serious to critical situation.

This cease fire is over. completely.

Infact I hope for a case of severe headache for all IJ and Hamas leaders.

	20-08-2003 00:32									#29
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quote: Well, Abbas hasn't enough power to say anything else, but I'm surprised by the others' reaction.

what makes you think he hasn't enough power?

he likes exclaiming it, but the only ones checking it in the field are the Israeli intelligence agencies, and they mostly agree that he can do much more (though there are disputes how much) compared to the "none" he was doing up until now.

quote: I still don't get why the terrorist groups are considered as possible disuccion mates. Their aim is to destroy Israel pure and simple, and every concession they'll make will be temporary and tactical.

yeah, tell that to the eu council

quote: Discussing with them may provide a temporary truce, but they'll never be satisfied until Israel is disbanded and Israelis are sent to the seas You can't discuss with these people. You have to cut off their financial and moral support, and physically destroy its key members

woohoo
a clear minded european

	20-08-2003 00:34									#30
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It should be open season on all terror groups, their supporters, their associated political parties, the mosques where they congrigate, and anyone else who seems overly friendly with them (or even just doesn't take action against them). Taking off the kiddy gloves and getting your hands dirty is the ONLY method which will stop them.