20-08-2003 01:51									#61
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Overwhelming force is more like constantly shelling ALL of the houses

Overwhelming force is probably a force sizable or powerful enough to overwhelm an opponent. For example:
A tank against a civilian with only a gun may be considered by the civilian to be "overwhelming", while a tank against a column of AT infantry wouldn't be.

(Note, I haven't read any of what your talking about. Just responding to what I see)

	20-08-2003 01:51									#62
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler Only US military attorneys, and I'm not sure whether the defendants will chose them or they will be "court" appointed.

There are lots of civilian contractors with security clearence.

	20-08-2003 01:51									#63
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark well then, between you and me there is nothing to discuss. You wondered why there was so much concern about "only" 30 or so deaths, which is light compared to deaths from "political violence". If you dont understand why deaths from cold blooded murder arouse more concern than other deaths in "political violence" then I cant help you.

I saw no thread from you, or actually anyone, on the Russian military hospital bombing, nor the Indonesia bombing a few weeks ago. Or the multiple deaths in Afghanistan from attacks on police and mkore terrorist bombings, or this, that, so forth and so on. It is really difficult to accept as really deepfelt or trully honest so much indignation when only selective acts of killing bring it about : unless you are willing to differentiate between different values for human life, including those of innocents from different ethnicities and or organizations.

What is "cold blooded murder", as opposed to "heroic act of resistance" is decided by each individual. But whether something was the smart thing to do based on your aims, or a discussion about the logics of your ends, that can trancend opinion and prejudice.

So spare me the indignation for the moment you honestly care about all human beings equally (whether that value is tota or low is immaterial), for I have no time for those that choose who is worth tears ad who isn't.

	20-08-2003 02:00									#64
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Oh wow, GePap.

" I have no time? "

It's time to put the monocule back in, me thinks.

	20-08-2003 02:02									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor If you can name the terrorists individually and their exact locations, go ahead. I don't think anybody here is against beating up terrorist's ass. But the thing is, it is not quite as easy to target as some national army.

Violence is bad. These people need to be reformed in jail.

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov America is realizing that it can't stay friends with Saudi Arabia, and have began taking steps and they start getting results (Israeli newspaper says that Saudia secrtly contacted Israel for info about terrorists in Saudia, promising to start taking care of them).

Well, duh. I've been telling you people not to bother with Afghanistan and definitely not assault Iraq because Saudis are the obvious instigators for years. Seriously, they've released the nationalities of 9/11 hijackers ages ago. Most were Saudi and none were Iraqi.

	20-08-2003 02:03									#66
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I saw no thread from you, or actually anyone, on the Russian military hospital bombing, nor the Indonesia bombing a few weeks ago. Or the multiple deaths in Afghanistan from attacks on police and mkore terrorist bombings, or this, that, so forth and so on.

and i did not start this thread either, or maybe you didnt notice. Im afraid its not my goal in life to post everything i feel on apolyton, and it is absurd of you to make assumptions about what i have feelings about based on whether or not i post on apolyton about it.

	20-08-2003 02:04									#67
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quote: Originally posted by GePap What is "cold blooded murder", as opposed to "heroic act of resistance" is decided by each individual.

No it is not.

	20-08-2003 02:05									#68
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Yes it is.

	20-08-2003 02:05									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Overwhelming force is probably a force sizable or powerful enough to overwhelm an opponent. For example: A tank against a civilian with only a gun may be considered by the civilian to be "overwhelming", while a tank against a column of AT infantry wouldn't be. (Note, I haven't read any of what your talking about. Just responding to what I see)

What I was talking about is sort of like calling using a sniper rifle to take out someone overwhelming force. It is small, concentrated, LIMITED force that does not spill over.

	20-08-2003 02:05									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Oh wow, GePap. " I have no time? " It's time to put the monocule back in, me thinks.

Nah, don;t kow how to hold it in my eyelid yet.

I never caled myself some sort of soft hearted liberal do goodnik, and no, if one wants to discuss the best ways to trully ned political violence or lower the levels of it, one needs to be frank, honest, and stop dealing with concepts that add dangerously little to the solution.

	20-08-2003 02:07									#71
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Violence is bad. These people need to be reformed in jail. Well, duh. I've been telling you people not to bother with Afghanistan and definitely not assault Iraq because Saudis are the obvious instigators for years. Seriously, they've released the nationalities of 9/11 hijackers ages ago. Most were Saudi and none were Iraqi.

yeah but we couldnt move against the saudis while saddam was in iraq - we relied on saudis for bases and to balance against iran. also for oil. With forces in Iraq, and oil from Iraq, we're that much less dependent on Saudi. And then, miracle of miracles, the Saudis turn on AQ and start arresting and shooting terrorists. (Well the riyadh bombings had SOMETHING to do with that, but not all)

	20-08-2003 02:07									#72
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark No it is not.

Find me a hisotry book, turn back to a discussion of the civil war in Missouri and Kansas and tell me definitely which was which....

If life were so simple and set, there would be only one code of justice for mankind. There isn't.

	20-08-2003 02:08									#73
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Nah, don;t kow how to hold it in my eyelid yet. I never caled myself some sort of soft hearted liberal do goodnik, and no, if one wants to discuss the best ways to trully ned political violence or lower the levels of it, one needs to be frank, honest, and stop dealing with concepts that add dangerously little to the solution.

like, er, "good and evil"


Lord of the mark

a poster for all and none.

	20-08-2003 02:14									#74
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Find me a hisotry book, turn back to a discussion of the civil war in Missouri and Kansas and tell me definitely which was which.... If life were so simple and set, there would be only one code of justice for mankind. There isn't.

I dont have the history of the jayhawks and so forth in front of me. IIRC, both sides commited acts of cold blooder murder. The fact that both sides to a conflict may commit cold blooded murder does not mean there is not a distinction between cold blooded murder and other acts of violence. Nor does the fact that different cultures value different things prove that are equally true. There isnt one story of how the world was created in all of mankind either - do you want to argue theyre all equally valid - well actually many post-modernists WOULD so argue, taking Nietzsche to his natural conclusion.

Now im not about to hold a course here on ethics and metaethics. Ethical relativism is an old and familiar viewpoint - Im not about to debate it here. I agree to disagree. thats why i said - we have nothing to discuss.

	20-08-2003 02:15									#75
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Yes it is.

not.

	20-08-2003 02:18									#76
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Point proven.

	20-08-2003 02:19									#77
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Yes it is

no it isn't

yes it is

ad nauseum

	20-08-2003 02:20									#78
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Point proven.

point taken

	20-08-2003 02:23									#79
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Finally.

	20-08-2003 02:24									#80
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Finally.

no wait

	20-08-2003 02:26									#81
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what now?

	20-08-2003 02:34									#83
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quote: seems like both sides have morons, conservatives and liberals.

So then you would be the moron on the other side?

	20-08-2003 02:35									#84
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No, diplo would be. And Speer. And Fez.

	20-08-2003 02:35									#85
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 what now?

aristotle.

	20-08-2003 02:36									#86
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Funny, though, IMHO diplo isn't usually this inane.

	20-08-2003 02:38									#87
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Violence is bad. These people need to be reformed in jail.

Hell, I'd rather see them recieve their reformation from the barrel of a Colt .45.

(and not the type Billy D. Williams is the spokesman for)

	20-08-2003 02:38									#88
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So then who do you represent?

	20-08-2003 02:39									#89
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huh?

EDIT: I wasn't calling you a moron. I was referring to diplo there. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

	20-08-2003 02:41									#90
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Oh, ok.