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yavoon
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quote:
Originally posted by elijah
Sorry, it doesn't work like that. Terrorism is a sociological phenomenon, you tackle it on that level, you defeat it. Its the only way. Force will only serve to create more. Its analogous to stepping on ants. The elephant you propose would not defeat the ants - indeed it would incite more.
Violent, emotional, irrational, simplistic reactions do nobody any good, except politicians who reap the political capital of pandering to the simple minded patriotic and militaristic reactions of people who do not understand the problems, whose solutions they propose have little or no effect in reality, and indeed run the risk of being counter productive. The only way to defeat terrorism is the way that would piss off people at home and cause politicians to lose power. |
so ur going to get through to simple earth grown folk w/ highly intellectualized jargon and pleas of convoluted logic? sounds like a plan captain.
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yavoon
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quote:
Originally posted by skywalker
This is what he's saying in such a manner as to make people think he is intelligent: shooting them pisses them off, so there'll be more of them. |
I don't doubt they dislike being shot at. I do doubt that irrational motives suchas islamic terorrism can be broken down to such absurdly simple logic as "send them flowers and they'll like us"
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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:30
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quote:
force isnt also a sociological phenomenon
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What I mean is that terrorists are an extreme end of society that hates the West. We remove that reason for them hating us, and then leave them be as much as possible for a while, and they will stop hating us. Part of that will be because they realise they are dependent on us economically, thus hatred would move to popular support for a love fest. More extreme elements would still remain, but they would be far reduced, and easily taken out by the military or intelligence, and not be replaced (providing one judges it correctly).
quote:
Somebody can gain self esteem and a redemption from cultural failure by commiting an act of terrorism. You can provide him another source of self esteem and redemption. Or you can show him that terrorism is a failure, and so eliminate it as a source of self esteem.
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A tactical failure? Of course, tactically, even 9/11 was negligible. Unlike the Bush rhetoric, terrorism represents no threat to Western civilisation, the biggest threat is the pollution that we are pumping into the air, and the rate of oil consumption. However, terrorism is very very successful at causing mass panic, terror, overreactions, and a forceful response, making it easier for people like Bin Laden to justify a jihad. So far, everything has been played into the terrorists hands!  . Lets not forget, these people have little or no regard for their own lives, they are perfectly to happy to die in battle, in a suicide bombing, or an assassination. In any case, killed by the enemies hands makes them a martyr.
quote:
So you used whichever works best. In the current situation, we can improve the alternatives by spreading liberal democracy.
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Cultural imperialism/absolutism will simply have the opposite effect. I have yet to be convinced that Arab culture is compatible with Western democracy!!!  . In either case, if you are looking to anger them in the short, long and very long term, you couldn't plan a better method than what is being done and proposed!
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But for lots of folks that just wont work - running them down and arresting them (or killing when the wont go quietly) is necessary.
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Not at all, especially when their death will anger many more people, polarise the situation more, martyr the terrorist, and cause another one to take his place.
quote:
so ur going to get through to simple earth grown folk w/ highly intellectualized jargon and pleas of convoluted logic? sounds like a plan captain.
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Yavoon, you are absolutely correct, I'm not going to get through to people with the concepts I use and the means by which I get them across. On the other hand, I dont care, someone else can do it.. I was never very good at communicating with "simple earth grown folk"
Odin: 
Dip: 1-3 are good, couldn't have put it better myself. 4 and 5 are fantastic if you want to have more terrorism, more angry people, and a conflict that will last for years.
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if making ppl rich was the only way to stop terrorism then 3/4ths of the globe would be suicide bombers.
try again.
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I think he means we address the unfettered capitalism running globalisation, the cultural imperialism and the economic imperialism adopted in the foreign policies of the West in the past few decades. On the other hand, Shangri-la would also be nice  .
quote:
This is what he's saying in such a manner as to make people think he is intelligent:
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Reading my post, I cant see how else I would have put it, and I'm not about to set about deliberately dumbing down what I say, so as to not alienate those who cant understand it! 
quote:
I do doubt that irrational motives suchas islamic terorrism can be broken down to such absurdly simple logic as "send them flowers and they'll like us"
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First thing they tell you in critical analysis classes is avoid ad hominems and strawmen. Read my above post, my proposition is nothing like that.
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20-08-2003 02:44
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