20-08-2003 17:33									#1
	Creationism. Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

In my opinion, Creationism is a good example of mans need to rationalize what he does not understand into concepts he is familiar with and can control. A vain attempt, but attempted nontheless.

Billions of years of geological history and millions of years of biological history is all an irrelevant trick by scientists to delude us from the righteousness of god.

The Earth was made in seven days, and is six thousand years old, and fossils were placed in the land to test our faith.

Last edited by problem_child on 20-08-2003 at 17:49

	20-08-2003 17:42									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Creationism is a good example of mans need to rationalize what he does not understand into concepts he is familiar with and can control.

Delete "Creationism" and add "Evolution" and that sentence would have equal validity.

And the attempt is vain, not vein.

	20-08-2003 17:48									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hmm, yes, the universe was made by a cosmic alpha-male concept who is a rigid hyrarchist and classic dictator/ruler, who created man in his own image. Non of these concepts are anthropomorthic human orientated type beleifs at all. It is the idea that the universe is vastly bigger then human history in both time, space and potential that is the true rationalization into concepts we can understand.

	20-08-2003 17:55									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: the universe was made by a cosmic alpha-male concept

That is not a concept I understand or can control. I can't control evolution either, but at least I can understand it as a rational explanation of the available evidence.

The idea of some bearded dude in the sky creating everything is the idea that seems beyond human comprehension to me. It just makes no sense, which is why we've invented evolution to make things seem clearer to us.

	20-08-2003 17:59									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

There you are, you have completely overestimated the nature of human reasoning. A simple mistake to make.

	20-08-2003 18:02									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Oh shucks. My attempt to disprove you was vein.

	20-08-2003 18:05									#7
	Tired of ads?

I think its 3000 year old science that was valid then, but since has become a matter of religion, faith and BS. Science is no place for sentimentality, our knowledge and reason since then have evolved.

	20-08-2003 18:10									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Oh shucks. My attempt to disprove you was vein.

Yes it was, I trust you will know better then to be so foolish in future.

Really I don't care about being disagreed with about this, in... five hundred million years time when the whole of human existance is just one more discolored layer in geological history, the whole Creationist thing (and all it's attendant religions) will be no more then an unremembered memory.

Unless gophers or something have evolved into creatures capable of producing archeologists by then.

elijah

	20-08-2003 18:14									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: an unremembered memory

That'd be a neat trick.

	20-08-2003 19:20									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Poet, you're burning daylight on a pointless endeavor.

	20-08-2003 22:16									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet quote: Creationism is a good example of mans need to rationalize what he does not understand into concepts he is familiar with and can control. Delete "Creationism" and add "Evolution" and that sentence would have equal validity. And the attempt is vain, not vein.

The difference is that there is an immense amount of scientific data that gives credence to the theory of evolution, but there is absolutely nothing scientific at all that points towards Creationism.

I emphasize towards because there is evidence that contradicts the accepted theory of evolution, but there is no evidence that supports the theory of creationism.

	20-08-2003 22:28									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

It would be nice to be religious but since I wasn't "brought up with it", I find too many inherent flaws in it.

But sometimes I wonder...

	20-08-2003 22:35									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Anyone who believes in Creationist BS is a naive MORON (Yeah, I'm talking to yoy, Diplomat ).

	20-08-2003 22:36									#15
	Put an end to popups!

There's another thing I wonder : why do the creationists reject the idea of evolution at all ? What is opposite to their faith to think that God created everything, and let it evolve since ? I don't see anything heretic in that belief...

	20-08-2003 22:37									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

When the sun falls down towards the sea at night, there is a guy with a boat that catches it and rows it over to another part of the horizon where it can rise again the next morning. So it actually never falls down into the ocean.

Just in case you wondered

	20-08-2003 22:43									#17
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor There's another thing I wonder : why do the creationists reject the idea of evolution at all ? What is opposite to their faith to think that God created everything, and let it evolve since ? I don't see anything heretic in that belief...

Christians believe humans are the center of creation, since evolution has no predetermined direction, humans are no different then any living thing, that is what has ticked of creationists since Darwin. We are part of the living world, not above it.

	20-08-2003 23:06									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: since evolution has no predetermined direction

Says who? Religious types could easily claim that the whole history of evolution has been according to some kind of master plan that God has. It wouldn't be any more ridiculous to claim that than to claim that creationism is the truth.

	20-08-2003 23:07									#19
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet quote: Creationism is a good example of mans need to rationalize what he does not understand into concepts he is familiar with and can control. Delete "Creationism" and add "Evolution" and that sentence would have equal validity. And the attempt is vain, not vein.

But all attempts are not equal.

Evolutionary biology is a scientific endeavor, and the fruits of that science have led to a dramatic increase in human knowledge. To say pursuing evolution is vain is simply wrong, since Darwinian mechanics have proven incredibly useful in a plethora of areas, including computer science, medicine and engineering. An abundant amount of science--overwhelming, in fact--has shown evolution to be incontrovertible fact.

Creationism is an unsubstantiated metaphysical belief. That's about all one needs say.

	20-08-2003 23:09									#20
	Put an end to popups!

FP, don't respond to odin as if he has something to say, it only encourages him

	20-08-2003 23:10									#21
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet quote: since evolution has no predetermined direction Says who?

Scientists, that's who. Evolution is random genetic mutation + natural selection. There's no evidence there is any sort of directive force behind evolution, and there are plenty of examples showing how it seems to work contrary to a notion of predetermined direction. Why else would species evolve body parts and then devolve them over time? Intelligent design has to explain why the vast majority of biological functions that have arisen through genetic mutation have been a waste of time and energy before one can seriously consider the concept of direction to evolution.

	20-08-2003 23:16									#22
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Scientists, that's who.

Scientists say a lot of things, and a great deal of it is contradictory. Just like you can find a passage in the Bible to support almost any claim about Christianity you can find some scientific study that claims that pretty much anything as fact. "Because scientists say so" isn't a lot better than "Because God says so".

	20-08-2003 23:20									#23
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Just like you can find a passage in the Bible to support almost any claim about Christianity you can find some scientific study that claims that pretty much anything as fact.

In the real, peer-reviewed science of today, that is simply not true. Inferences can be made from observing physical phenomena, but no scientist worth his salt would ever attempt to prove anything as fact based on inconsistent/absent evidence. That's not science.

	20-08-2003 23:23									#24
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

To defend FP, you don't have to be a creationist to think that evolutionism is an abstract simplification of reality for us to understand it. Heck, it is the very endeavour of science !

	20-08-2003 23:24									#25
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet "Because scientists say so" isn't a lot better than "Because God says so".

You'll note that wasn't all I said, as I pointed out why scientists say so, which is because all of the evidence we have points to undirected evolutionary change, and nothing indicates Intelligent Design. So it is a lot better, since it relies on scientific observation rather than a supernatural BAM.

Science is falsifiable and subject to peer review, so saying science can support anything is absurd. Scientists can theorize almost anything, but when it comes to evidence and support, it's a different story.

The notion that someone just came along and "invented" evolution as more plausible explanation than God is absurd as well, and betrays an utter lack of knowledge as to how Darwin (originally a Creationist) came to his conclusions.

	20-08-2003 23:25									#26
	Remove this text

I'm no historian, but this is the ripest troll thread I've ever encountered.

	20-08-2003 23:27									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'm quite aware of how Darwin came to his conclusions. Origin of the Species is a fascinating book, but I haven't got around to reading any of his other works in detail yet.

	20-08-2003 23:28									#28
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by yavoon I'm no historian, but this is the ripest troll thread I've ever encountered.

After some thought, I must say that's right. I've seen threads degenrating into worse trollfests, but the starting post of this one was impressive

	20-08-2003 23:29									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by yavoon I'm no historian, but this is the ripest troll thread I've ever encountered.

Oh it's good, but we've had better ones. You need to pay closer attention.

	20-08-2003 23:29									#30
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Nothing in Biology makes sense unless in the light of evolution.