24-08-2003 18:26									#1
	Like father, like son - Bush support starts to unravel over Iraq Got spare money?

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003...1663660695.html

quote: Bush losing support for re-election August 24, 2003 A growing number of Americans don't want to see US President George W Bush re-elected, and fear US troops are being drawn into a long, costly occupation of Iraq, according to a Newsweek poll. For the first time the poll has found that more registered voters - 49 per cent - would not want Bush to return for a second term in office if the elections were now, than those - 44 per cent - who would. Only 23 per cent said terrorism and homeland security would be the most important issues for them in the October 2004 election, compared with 48 per cent who said deciding factors for them would be the economy and jobs. Meanwhile, 69 per cent are now convinced the United States will become bogged down in Iraq, without achieving ostensible goals in getting the country back on its feet. Some 40 per cent of them are now "very concerned" US troops will be there for the long haul. A majority also fears that US forces will be overextended in the event of a security threat elsewhere, according to the poll in the latest edition of Newsweek - 29 per cent very concerned and 30 per cent somewhat concerned. Americans also think that reconstruction costs in Iraq are too high at $US1 billion ($A1.53 billion) per week - 66 per cent said they do not support such spending, compared with 34 per cent who said they support current spending levels. And 53 per cent said they would oppose an increase to the figure being spent, with only seven per cent not opposed to an increase. Almost half of people polled - 47 per cent - said they were very concerned that maintaining troops in Iraq is too expensive and will cause a higher budget deficit, seriously damaging the US economy. The survey was taken between August 21 and 22 on some 1,011 adults aged 18 and above. The poll has a plus or minus three per cent error margin.

Of course some of us predicted this before the war even started

But did the right wing warmongers listen to us? Nah

And doesn't Clinton start to look better and better and smarter and smarter? Its the economy stupid!

You people should really listen to old horsie.

	24-08-2003 18:55									#2
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HILLARY!!

	24-08-2003 18:57									#3
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We'll see. We'll see.

	24-08-2003 19:07									#4
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I don't want Hillary...

Howard Dean is the only Democrat I like. He's the candidate that is the least bit of a "politician".

	24-08-2003 19:24									#5
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Yeah, no Hilary.

But I looked over some of the info about Dean and he seems like a fairly decent choice. But it's really too far away to tell right now. I will try to keep up on things though; i'll be voting in this one.

	24-08-2003 19:25									#6
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This is so expectable it's not even funny

	24-08-2003 19:25									#7
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I'm still going to vote for whoever is opposing Bush...

	24-08-2003 19:27									#8
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You know...some people can learn on their own, and predict things ahead of time...other people just have to pee on the electric fence and see for themself, I guess.

	24-08-2003 19:31									#9
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You know what's really ironic? Bush and company were constantly taking extra care because they didn't want these wars to become another Vietnam... but they have. The US doesn't know how to fight a guerilla war. And that's why we can't win in Iraq or Afghanistan. We're not making the same mistakes as in Vietnam or the same ones the Russians made in Afghanistan... we're making all new ones.

	24-08-2003 19:40									#10
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I think we are quite far of the 50,000 American casualties, and 2,000,000 Iraqi / Afghan casualties for now. I'd wait a bit before screaming "VIETNAM!!!" yet.

	24-08-2003 19:42									#11
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quote: I think we are quite far of the 50,000 American casualties, and 2,000,000 Iraqi / Afghan casualties for now. I'd wait a bit before screaming "VIETNAM!!!" yet.

I was referring to the lack of success, not the bodycount.

	24-08-2003 19:43									#12
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quote: I don't want Hillary...

But shes HOT!!!

	24-08-2003 19:43									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I'm still going to vote for whoever is opposing Bush...

You know, you can only vote once, right?

There are some Democrats I would likely vote for over Bush, and there are some I won't vote over Bush. Overall, though, all the choices are pretty poor, IMO. Maybe if Clark enters the race, it might get interesting, but I don't know yet if I'd vote for him.

	24-08-2003 19:43									#14
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quote: I think we are quite far of the 50,000 American casualties, and 2,000,000 Iraqi / Afghan casualties for now. I'd wait a bit before screaming "VIETNAM!!!" yet.

If the casualty count ever hits 50,000, Bush's ass is going to be lynched.

	24-08-2003 19:46									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Edan You know, you can only vote once, right?

You mean, because Bush will ban elections once he's reelected ?

	24-08-2003 19:47									#16
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quote: You know, you can only vote once, right?

I live in Chicago...

	24-08-2003 21:01									#17
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The one things this tells us is that Bush's reelection is not a sure thing as many predicted.

No, Iraq is not a Vietnam: but this admin. has not told, and continues to avoid to tell the truth of the costs of our commitment there. In general, this admin. has a much worse truth problem than Clinton's admin., speically over what it lies about.

	24-08-2003 21:09									#18
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US public opinion is increadibley fickle, all he needs to do is start a war with Iran a month or so before the election and he's fine.

	24-08-2003 21:14									#19
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Bush senior's support didn't unravel over Iraq it unraveled over the economy. If Jr.'s support unravels then it will be over the economy as well.

	24-08-2003 21:14									#20
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man US public opinion is increadibley fickle, all he needs to do is start a war with Iran a month or so before the election and he's fine.

Wasn't that precisely the point of Bush bragging about Iraq one month or so before midterm elections ?

	24-08-2003 21:20									#21
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"Meanwhile, 69 per cent are now convinced the United States will become bogged down in Iraq, without achieving ostensible goals in getting the country back on its feet."

An amazing onslaught of realism.

	24-08-2003 21:21									#22
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man US public opinion is increadibley fickle, all he needs to do is start a war with Iran a month or so before the election and he's fine.

Given that many Americans felt sending a contingent of Marines to Liberia was spreading ourselves thin, invading a country 3 times the size of Iraq would not be viewed as a intelligent thing to do given the current Iraq situation.

	24-08-2003 21:23									#23
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quote: "Meanwhile, 69 per cent are now convinced the United States will become bogged down in Iraq, without achieving ostensible goals in getting the country back on its feet." An amazing onslaught of realism.

Iraq is more like Vietnam than people will admit. Vietnam was lost in part because the military didn't have the resources to win. Vietnam could have been won with a large groud invasion and occupation... Iraq is the same. The US does not have enough ground forces to accomplish it's goals. It's a catch-22 of sorts. More troops are needed, but the more troops you put in, the more the people will resist the occupation.

	24-08-2003 21:25									#24
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I still think Iraq will be more like Lebanon.

	24-08-2003 21:26									#25
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quote: I still think Iraq will be more like Lebanon.

how so?

	24-08-2003 21:28									#26
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Actually the senior Bush's support dwindled because of poor economic management, as well as tax raises and a poor re-election campaign "Bozo's and all".

	24-08-2003 21:33									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Sava how so?

Terror attacks forcing withdrawal. US Marines in Beirut 1983, Israel in South Lebanon 2001. Ethnic and political disintegration.

	24-08-2003 21:36									#28
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there's a three-way civil war in iraq these days roland? must of missed that one...

	24-08-2003 21:36									#29
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The economy is starting to show some strong signs of rebounding. Economic leaders are up. Jobless claims down. Taxes are lower and we still have over a year to make it look like Iraq is getting under control. The Dems have not provided any acceptable alternative. At this point a Bush 2nd term looks likely. It is, of course, still way to early to tell.

	24-08-2003 21:39									#30
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Sava:

We won "the war" in Iraq. That in itself makes the Vietnam scenerio moot. The fact is that Iraq, if it resembles anything at all, is like the Phillipinnes after the Spanish American War..

The problem in Iraq is an admin. unwilling to own up to the true size of the commitment they need to end up with a sucess in Iraq. The US has the resources to "win" in Iraq but we are politically unwilling to bear them alone, yet this amdin. is unwilling to accept the sort of international support needed to make up for this lack of enthusiasm at home.

Hesrh:

As of now, the level of terrorist activity is too low to lead to a pull-out. And unlike in Lebanon, the whole country in under the invaders control.