12-09-2003 22:11									#31
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to GT's suggestion. If it were me, since we may need ECs for Secret Project and crawler construction, I'd offer the techs to begin with... however, from a stretegic point of view where we want to limit our rivals' power, GT likely is in the right. The ECs won't help the Pirates quite as much as an additional technology would.

As for the Hive... If they're playing an initial builder phase, which is fairly likely, I think they likely have Automation by now. Even if they're playing a balanced Build/Conquer game, they very well may have it. So I'd assume that they have a fair chance at getting both those SPs.

Of the two, the HGP seems to me to be one of our priorities... I'd rather have that than the Merchant Exchange, although it's admittedly debatable. But our immediate priority is admittedly the Virtual World.

It's possible that the Hive hasn't stockpiled crawlers in preparation for these Secret Projects. If so, we still have a shot at the HGP. However, we'll know soon enough.

	13-09-2003 07:25									#32
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Again, not much to say here, except that we're continuing to follow MM's plan, and that our Unity foil opened a Unity pod and found 50 ECs inside.

	13-09-2003 14:03									#33
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Again, not much to say here, except that we're continuing to follow MM's plan, and that our Unity foil opened a Unity pod and found 50 ECs inside.

That's good, now we actually have the cash to back up our negotiations with the pirates.

	13-09-2003 14:04									#34
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Yes, to the tune of 122 ECs. Hopefully we won't have to rush any more Rec Commons for a while...

	16-09-2003 14:05									#35
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Well, the Hive snatched both the HGP and the PTS which means that only the VW and the ME are unbuilt. The Believers, as we know, have been building the VW for some time now and the Angels are building the ME in three cities. In normal SP games the AI never changes SP production in mid-flight, but do you suppose Googlie could have changed this? I'd hate to lose the VW to an AI.

As far as fellow humans go, I suppose the Borgs could really use the VW, since they are likely to build net nodes anyway. We just have to hope we can beat them to it.

BTW, have we made an offer to the PEACE?

	16-09-2003 14:09									#36
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quote: Well, the Hive snatched both the HGP and the PTS which means that only the VW and the ME are unbuilt. The Believers, as we know, have been building the VW for some time now and the Angels are building the ME in three cities. In normal SP games the AI never changes SP production in mid-flight, but do you suppose Googlie could have changed this? I'd hate to lose the VW to an AI.

If he did, I'd be very interested to know how he did it. AFAIK, the only way you can beef up the AI is to give it extra faction bonuses and more starting bases; you can't make it smarter, onyl tougher.

quote: As far as fellow humans go, I suppose the Borgs could really use the VW, since they are likely to build net nodes anyway. We just have to hope we can beat them to it.

Yes, there's little else we can do, although we should have it sewn up in a few turns anyway.

quote: BTW, have we made an offer to the PEACE?

Good question. CS?

	16-09-2003 15:47									#37
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Nothing new to report.

	17-09-2003 04:46									#38
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I submitted the offer to PEACE last Friday. Today I got a reply:

quote: Honored Crimson Sunrise Your offer has been submitted to the council o' captains. We be most interested in energy credits but we commlinks as most valuable. WE are reticent to sell them and would seek a considerable sum. AS for doc flex-- it is a possible trade item . . . However ethical calc is not desired as we have other means of acquiring it . . . WE would be most interested in gene splicing however . . .. or any other non level 1 tech -- (Its not that we value these less, its just that we have the ones we want) . Ambassador Flubber Chief Sweet-talker o' Peace

What do we think?

	17-09-2003 07:41									#39
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We have/are researching Gene Splicing, aren't we?

	17-09-2003 08:46									#40
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Yes, we're researching Gene Splicing and it would be very useful for the pirates indeed. With GS, they would get their nutrient restrictions lifted and finally get those 3 nutrients from the kelp farms. I would think hard before trading this though, because it is our state-of-the-art technology and it leads to many useful techs (Synthetic Fossile Fuels, Bio-Engineering, Ecological Engineering).

They did say that they are interested in any non level 1 tech though, which means we should try to sell them Secrets of the Human Brain. Perhaps a simple 1 to 1 trade -- SotHB for D:F? I still think we should trade for Applied Physics at some point, but perhaps not right now, if we are heading for restriction lifting. We don't need lasers at the moment and we don't want to slow down our research.

	17-09-2003 15:27									#41
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I'd love to know how the Hive snatched both the HGP and the PTS. =/ Either we're doing a lot of things wrong, or they're doing things very right (Or just got lucky), and I'm afraid it's the former rather than the latter.

	17-09-2003 15:28									#42
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Good question, especially when they apparently lost a CP to worms quite early on...

	17-09-2003 20:32									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic I'd love to know how the Hive snatched both the HGP and the PTS. =/ Either we're doing a lot of things wrong, or they're doing things very right (Or just got lucky), and I'm afraid it's the former rather than the latter.

I believe it's a combination of the two. I have reason to believe that the Hive have planned their turns very carefully and I don't think they just got lucky when they built the SPs, especially knowing that the pods don't produce any artifacts. As for the latter point, I believe we could have built the VW earlier by priorizing our production differently. That's in the past however, and as far as I can see there's nothing we can do to get the VW any earlier.

	17-09-2003 21:52									#44
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By the way, has the turn been played already? I thought General Tacticus mentioned that it had, but nobody's posted it in the turn tracking thread.

	18-09-2003 15:56									#45
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Even if the Hive planned their turns very carefully, I fail to see how they could have got to Ind. Auto so quickly without help. Mark my words, the other factions exchanged comms early, and we're being intentionally left out of the trading because they fear us. There is no way the Hive alone could have built both those projects in this short amount of time without some form of help.

	18-09-2003 15:57									#46
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Might they have found some techs in pods?

	18-09-2003 17:40									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic Even if the Hive planned their turns very carefully, I fail to see how they could have got to Ind. Auto so quickly without help. Mark my words, the other factions exchanged comms early, and we're being intentionally left out of the trading because they fear us. There is no way the Hive alone could have built both those projects in this short amount of time without some form of help.

If the Hive have gotten tech trades who have they traded with? I'd say it's either the Cyborgs or the Pirates. We know that the Pirates have Industrial Automation and we know that they have traded with the Cyborgs who in all probability also have IA. My guess of the two are the Cyborgs and I wouldn't be surprised if we faced an alliance of them and the Hive. The Hive at least will be our enemy in any case.

quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Might they have found some techs in pods?

The pods don't give any techs in this game.

	19-09-2003 12:25									#48
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quote: The pods don't give any techs in this game.

I see. Wasn't sure if they did or not...

	20-09-2003 11:15									#49
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I'd better write back to Flubber and PEACE. What are we willing to offer them?

	20-09-2003 11:16									#50
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SotHB, I think - hopefully that will be sufficient.

	22-09-2003 08:17									#51
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quote: Honored Ambassador Sunrise Your message was most welcome. I had feared the end of negotiations after so much time passing. I will pass along the message. By your response, I take it that you are not able to trade GS for this tech at this time. There has been a change in circumstance regarding ethical calc . I presume that eth calc for doc flex would remain possible as a deal? Please confirm . . . More generally, I wish to note the rapid rise of the HIve as evidenced by their completion of TWO special projects. The PEACE believe it to be important that our two factions work together to our mutual benefit. I am hopeful we can swiftly conclude a trade of technology, which will be only one of many such trades. Other than doc flex, are there any other deals that you wish ?? . . . Now that we are aware of your having SOTHB, I will seek guidance as to whether there are any other techs we might offer for that. With warmers regards from the PEACE faction Ambassador Flub

I'm gonna tell him that Ethical Calculus is still on the table, if that's okay.

	22-09-2003 08:18									#52
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Yes - it's absolutely still on the table.

	22-09-2003 08:22									#53
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Hmm. I get a screen saying Flubber's message box is full. I'll try again later.

	22-09-2003 08:31									#54
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Try emailing him... or send the message to someone else.

	22-09-2003 11:06									#55
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It seems that the Hive has again started two SPs: The Command Nexus and The Virtual World. Not only that, but the Cyborgs have also started the Virtual World, which means that we have a slim chance of getting it.

	22-09-2003 17:15									#56
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I wonder what's going on over in the Hive . . .

By the way, I eventually got the message through to PEACE, to Hercules rather than Flubber.

	23-09-2003 04:40									#57
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Hercules says

quote: Respected Ambassador Crimson Sunrise. Thank you for your Communication. I will post it in our forum for Ambassador Flubbers attention. In deed his PM seems to filled overflowing. I will get him to contact you. From the discussions just recently on the techs you have to offer, I believe there was feeling that the tech trade for Ethical Calculus was being looked upon favourably. I would expect Ambassador Flubber to be in contact very soon regarding the exact details of a trade. Btw is Gene Splicing the tech you are currently researching. If so there might be the prospect of future trades. If not we would be interested in what you are researching with a view to co-ordinating research programmes or exchange. We too have noted the Hive's achievements and like you, have not formulated a long term policy.

Flubber says

quote: Honored ambassador I apologize that me telegraph operator was drunk at his post and not receivin' messages as he should. But me boat passed close by Cap'n herc's an' he sent me yer message. Oh and de telegraph operator got 10 lashes from the cat and is now sitting .. . . err I mean standing attentively at his post. The deal of ethical calc fer doc flex is indeed gaining approval in our waters. Methinks that we can conclude the deal shortly. Is there any thoughts as to timin' or ratification on yer end. I 'av to to poll the cap'ns but thet ken be a quick process since opinions 'ave been expressed around de council table . If'n you 'ave anyting else ye wishes to discuss, don't hesitate to send us a message. The fact dat ye be straight-talkers willin' to make a fair deal makes ye friends in my book. I be hopin' that perhaps we can become even better friends in da future. Ambassador flubber Chief sweet-talker o' the peace

	23-09-2003 05:20									#58
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Well, I haven't seen any dissent here regarding the Ethical Calculus deal, so I think we can declare it approved... anyone want to make any comments regarding trading Gene Splicing for anything?

	23-09-2003 13:12									#59
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Well, I haven't seen any dissent here regarding the Ethical Calculus deal, so I think we can declare it approved... anyone want to make any comments regarding trading Gene Splicing for anything?

The Ethical Calculus - Doctrine: Flexibility deal sounds good in my book.

Regarding Gene Splicing, this is what I said before:

quote: Yes, we're researching Gene Splicing and it would be very useful for the pirates indeed. With GS, they would get their nutrient restrictions lifted and finally get those 3 nutrients from the kelp farms. I would think hard before trading this though, because it is our state-of-the-art technology and it leads to many useful techs (Synthetic Fossile Fuels, Bio-Engineering, Ecological Engineering).

So basically I would look for a very good deal if we are to trade this. Before trading Gene Splicing, I would be interested in getting the Cyborg comm frequency. Maybe we should try trading some ECs and/or Biogenetics for it, especially now that the HGP has been built.

Flubber:

quote: I be hopin' that perhaps we can become even better friends in da future.

How good friends do we want to become with the pirates? We certainly could use some friends, especially if we miss all the early SPs as seems to be the case. How much can we trust the pirates?

	23-09-2003 13:19									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Minute Mirage Regarding Gene Splicing, this is what I said before: quote: Yes, we're researching Gene Splicing and it would be very useful for the pirates indeed. With GS, they would get their nutrient restrictions lifted and finally get those 3 nutrients from the kelp farms. I would think hard before trading this though, because it is our state-of-the-art technology and it leads to many useful techs (Synthetic Fossile Fuels, Bio-Engineering, Ecological Engineering). So basically I would look for a very good deal if we are to trade this. Before trading Gene Splicing, I would be interested in getting the Cyborg comm frequency. Maybe we should try trading some ECs and/or Biogenetics for it, especially now that the HGP has been built.

That sounds reasonable - it is, as you said, a very useful tech (especially for the Pirates), and we shouldn't trade it away lightly.

quote: How good friends do we want to become with the pirates? We certainly could use some friends, especially if we miss all the early SPs as seems to be the case. How much can we trust the pirates?

We can't afford to trust them too much - they can be expected to betray us if the payoff is high enough, or if they feel they have no choice - but I think they can be trusted to some extent at least. They'd have to know that if they did betray us in some way, their credibility with the other factions would be non-existent.