29-08-2003 02:47									#1
	Birth of a Nation Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I had to watch this movie for my Intro to American Film class. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, BoaN was a 1915 silent film by DW Griffith that depicted a HIGHLY fictionalized account of the civil war, reconstruction, and the founding of the KKK, as seen from the point of view of an old southern family, the Camerons. It's 154 minutes long, spectacularly bigoted, and was, for some perverse reason, the most popular film of its day. Translated into today's dollars, ticket sales from BoaN probably make it the most successful film ever.
This thread is inspired partly by recent discussion of the early KKK and its motives(I'm not going to name names), and partly because I'd like to see how many of the people here had to sit through it. I'm not going to ask what anybody thought of it; I don't think even the modern KKK claims that the situation was that dire for whites. As in, streets filled with armed black militias bent on assaulting white women in broad daylight, acting under the official authority of the black lieutenant governor of North Carolina and the 80% black majority of the state senate. I'm not a history major, but I somehow don't think that happened.
Who else here has seen it?

	29-08-2003 02:54									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've seen it. You should also mention that this is one of the most important movies in cinema history, as a number of inovastions were made or the filming, such as the cut scene and using a track to follow moving action. The technical achviements only helped the racist message get across.

President Wilson (an historian by trade) declared the movie a true account and the release of the movie lead to the rebirth of the Klan, when the first firey cross was raised over Stone Mountain (now the site of an amusement park) in 1915. In ten short years, the Klan would grow to dominate American politics as few movements have done, with a million Klansman marching on the capital in 1925. THis was probably the closest to an indigenous facist movement as the US has ever had, and only a scandal with the Lt. Gov of Indiana stopped the Klan from claiming the White House.

	29-08-2003 02:56									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Whatever it's message (which was revolting), it's undeniably a work of genius.

	29-08-2003 03:03									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The movie was based on a book called, The Klansman. IIRC, the author was one Thomas Moore.

	29-08-2003 03:06									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

How odd it must be for a person in Maryland, since Maryland was officially neutral, and right there.

	29-08-2003 03:09									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Did that make any sense to anyone else?

	29-08-2003 04:20									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I've seen it. You should also mention that this is one of the most important movies in cinema history, as a number of inovastions were made or the filming, such as the cut scene and using a track to follow moving action. The technical achviements only helped the racist message get across. President Wilson (an historian by trade) declared the movie a true account and the release of the movie lead to the rebirth of the Klan, when the first firey cross was raised over Stone Mountain (now the site of an amusement park) in 1915. In ten short years, the Klan would grow to dominate American politics as few movements have done, with a million Klansman marching on the capital in 1925. THis was probably the closest to an indigenous facist movement as the US has ever had, and only a scandal with the Lt. Gov of Indiana stopped the Klan from claiming the White House.

But remember, the Ku Klux Klan originally began as a benevolent organization that sought to establish law and order.

	29-08-2003 04:30									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara when the first firey cross was raised over Stone Mountain (now the site of an amusement park)

They built an amusement park out of a burning cross?

I hate to hear what the attractions and rides are named........

	29-08-2003 04:39									#9
	Re: Birth of a Nation Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Elok I had to watch this movie for my Intro to American Film class. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, BoaN was a 1915 silent film by DW Griffith that depicted a HIGHLY fictionalized account of the civil war, reconstruction, and the founding of the KKK, as seen from the point of view of an old southern family, the Camerons. It's 154 minutes long, spectacularly bigoted, and was, for some perverse reason, the most popular film of its day. Translated into today's dollars, ticket sales from BoaN probably make it the most successful film ever. This thread is inspired partly by recent discussion of the early KKK and its motives(I'm not going to name names), and partly because I'd like to see how many of the people here had to sit through it. I'm not going to ask what anybody thought of it; I don't think even the modern KKK claims that the situation was that dire for whites. As in, streets filled with armed black militias bent on assaulting white women in broad daylight, acting under the official authority of the black lieutenant governor of North Carolina and the 80% black majority of the state senate. I'm not a history major, but I somehow don't think that happened. Who else here has seen it?

What really happened during Reconstruction was that advocates of democracy and racial equality set high ideals towards those ends (democracy and racial equality).

Such efforts as setting up public schools, proposals for land transfers to former slaves, enfranchisement, equitable employment conditions on plantations, new hospitals and colleges, and so forth, were all ways to work towards those ideals.

Unfortunately, corruption from both sides, and racial and political violence mostly from white Southerners who wanted to reestablish dominance of the Democratic party, were some of the reasons that Reconstruction was a failure.
There were also some Republicans and so-called activists who squandered money for themselves that belonged to the various Reconstruction state governments.

On another note, it seemed for awhile that white Southern Unionists would create a solid Republican voting base, along with Southern blacks. But it was always more complicated than that -- some white Southern Unionists were racist, and wanted to have as little to do with blacks as possible, while some other white Southern Unionists became advocates for racial equality, along with more equitable economic conditions for white and black yeomen.

But the Ku Klux Klan became the political terrorist organization for the Democratic party and was only one of the groups that sought to undo Reconstruction and redeem the South to "white rule." This in combination with corruption and incompetence from some Republican leaders and activists ensured Reconstruction would fail.


This is a more accurate summary of Reconstruction. Of course, there are hundreds of whole books on this, and with my summary, I have only begun to give you an idea of the complexity of this time period.

	29-08-2003 04:39									#10
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by MrFun But remember, the Ku Klux Klan originally began as a benevolent organization that sought to establish law and order.

My understanding was that the origin was a small group that thought it would be fun to scare some of the superstitious local black folks and "put them in their place". The origins were pretty much a bunch of guys on a lark ( with about as much forethought and deeper meaning as the average modern college prank) as I understand it.

It soon evolved into a " white protection" movement and then into an instrument of violence.

	29-08-2003 04:41									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Flubber My understanding was that the origin was a small group that thought it would be fun to scare some of the superstitious local black folks and "put them in their place". The origins were pretty much a bunch of guys on a lark ( with about as much forethought and deeper meaning as the average modern college prank) as I understand it. It soon evolved into a " white protection" movement and then into an instrument of violence.

You realize I was being sarcastic, right?

I provided a serious response to the thread author's basic question in my next post, which is above.

	29-08-2003 04:43									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: President Wilson (an historian by trade) declared the movie a true account

Which is unsurprising, considering Wilson's background.

quote: This is a more accurate summary of Reconstruction.

The one thing you forgot is the Radical Republicans were a minority in Congress, even right after the Civil War. Many in the North were just as racist as those in the South.

	29-08-2003 05:47									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

"How odd it must be for a person in Maryland, since Maryland was officially neutral, and right there."

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Did that make any sense to anyone else?

If you had more knowledge than words, it would make sense.
Elok is in Maryland.
Maryland was a neutral state in the war, and gave passage to both sides.
War raged all around Maryland.
Got it yet?

	29-08-2003 05:58									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

Maryland was not a neutral State, it was not officialy neutral at all as you said.

Maryland is an interesting case actually, as the majority of the State sympathized with the South and may well have favored secession- and Maryland doing so might well have turned the tide to a Southern victory. However, Lincoln suspended the writ of Habeas Corpus and arrested pro-seccesion politicians, leading to a State government pretty much run by western Maryland, around Frederick, MD. That area was Unionist. I think there were some Marylanders who thought for the South, but Maryland also did raise troops for the North.

In any case, it really doesn't follow that Elok's state makes a difference as to whether his point is right.

	29-08-2003 06:03									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Flubber My understanding was that the origin was a small group that thought it would be fun to scare some of the superstitious local black folks and "put them in their place". The origins were pretty much a bunch of guys on a lark ( with about as much forethought and deeper meaning as the average modern college prank) as I understand it. It soon evolved into a " white protection" movement and then into an instrument of violence.

Actually, it started as a social club, without the night riding, IIRC. It did, however, very quickly follwo the trajectory you outlined. I did a report on this back in 1986 and I got my info from the Southern Law Poverty Center, or whatever the heck it's called.

	29-08-2003 07:01									#16
	Put an end to popups!

I heard that "Klu Klux Klan" is an approximation of the sounds made while reloading a rifle, so 'Klan' has nothing to do with 'Clan'. Does anyone know if this is accurate?

	29-08-2003 07:05									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The KKK comes from a Greek name, like it is done with Fraternites and Sororities.

	29-08-2003 07:08									#18
	Support Apolyton

The guy who came up with the name was playing around with the word kukala, which became ku klux. Klan makes it an alliteration.

	29-08-2003 07:15									#19
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi The KKK comes from a Greek name, like it is done with Fraternites and Sororities.

Which Greek name neocon?

	29-08-2003 07:15									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I can't find any info on the net to confirm Shi's assertion. Anybody? Although one source suggested a derivation from the Greek work "kuklos".

	29-08-2003 07:19									#21
	Tired of ads?

And what does "kuklos" mean besides doll pretty for men? (~russian: doll)

Really.


Ku Klux Klan comes from the sound of a waeapon hatrred for catholics and etc

	29-08-2003 07:23									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Awesome flick as far as cinema advancement went, D.W. Griffith was the first best thing to happen to the film industry... then, Orson Wells, the Speilberg

Anyone care to object?

	29-08-2003 07:38									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'm checking. Apparently the name KKK comes from the world circle, kuklos, and someone to alliterate added the word calm.

	29-08-2003 07:40									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

That would mean: circle, doll and something else which you havent figured out yet.


pretty funyy stuff and completely delusional.

	29-08-2003 08:15									#25
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: President Wilson (an historian by trade) declared the movie a true account Which is unsurprising, considering Wilson's background. quote: This is a more accurate summary of Reconstruction. The one thing you forgot is the Radical Republicans were a minority in Congress, even right after the Civil War. Many in the North were just as racist as those in the South.

Yes -- the fact that posted historical facts/summaries on here are not as well thought out, due to typing as I read the thread, instead of a fully drawn-out report, means I will unintentionally leave out other information.

Obviously racism never was regional -- it's prevelant nationally. You can't blame white Southerners for racism anymore than white Southerners should blame "Yankees" for all their historical problems, rather than acknowledge that the problems came from BOTH sides.

	29-08-2003 08:59									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Elok -- where is your appreciation for the information that others have provided you?

	29-08-2003 08:59									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: That would mean: circle, doll and something else which you havent figured out yet. pretty funyy stuff and completely delusional.

How would you know, Paiktis? The Greek you speak is a debased, Turkish-influenced form that is light years from the classical Greek that enlightened Americans would've used.

You don't have much to offer in this discussion, unless you want to tell us all how to say "Sorry, master" in Turkish.

	29-08-2003 09:02									#28
	Suffering from ads?

you ****ing preick lol greek have nothjing to do with turkish.

so unless you wanna make up a language of your own besides borrowing onces, you can tell us how to say osama ****ed you up the arse with ease in american, if u can

	29-08-2003 09:03									#29
	Full PM-box? Change here!

You guys can create a separate, boring thread on the issues of linguistics.

For now, can we stay on topic?

	29-08-2003 09:07									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: The name Ku Klux Klan itself was created from the Greek word "kuklos" meaning circle, or band. Klan is simply "clan" spelled improperly (2). Ku Klux Klan was chosen as the name due to its originality and the mysterious sounding of the name.

http://www.peddie.org/princip/USHPK...nts/ush-pms.htm