18-03-2004 14:16									#331
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I make it your turn, -Jrabbit

	18-03-2004 18:46									#332
	Increase Your PM Length

Aarrrgh! I just downloaded 2nd Sailing and it's gonna be very time-consuming. I have some travel coming up, too.

Will do all I can.

	22-03-2004 11:27									#333
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Survey of the Empire - 1870 AD (0)

Fundamentalist, celebrations in all cities except Memphis
70% Tax, 0% Science, 30% Lux
Income 551
Cost 78
Net 473

Techs every 930 Turns, one scientist

Current Production: 6 Spies, 1 Freight, 1 Cruiser, 1 Supermarket (?)

Defense: 7 Engineers, 10 Calvary, 2 Cannon, 4 Cruisers, 8 Transport, 11 Spies

Science: 62 Techs, 14 White, Currently researching nothing, Goal - Machine Tools

Foreign:
Babylonians - Peace, Republic, Researching Engineering (42 Techs), Capital-Nineveh, 5 Cities (4 Located), 1461 Gold

French - War, Democracy, Researching Guerrilla Warfare (61 Techs), Capital-Paris, 13 Cities (all located), 1972; they have Genetic Engineering, Combustion and Atomic Theory which we don't

Egyptians - War, Communism, Researching Genetic Engineering (59 Techs), Capital-Pi Ramesses 6 Cities (5 Located), 1103 Gold

Chinese - War, Republic, Researching Leadership (51 Techs), Capital Beijing 12 Cities (9 Located), 1996 Gold

Greeks - War, Fundamentalism, Researching Steam Engine (42 Techs), Capital Miletos 9 Cities (4 Located), 1346 Gold

Mongols - War, Despotism, Researching Engineering (13 Techs), Capitla Karakorum 4 Cities (3 Located), 492 Gold


Goals?

Raze Miletos (Greek Capital, Connected by Railroad to us), after Capital Falls, raze any accessible Greek city with the goal of getting them off our continent

Raze Nishapur and Tabriz (Mongol cities, easy targets accessible by sea)

Raze any one Egyptian City (probably not Pi-Ramesses due to many trade routes, probably not Elephantine due to strategic position with Chinese on other side), therefore likely either Alexandria or Thebes

Production change:
Kenobi Kave to Cruiser (to escort transports to Mongolia)
Pax Styom - Rush Spy (partial)
SKJ - Partial Rush Caravan
Heliopolis - Rush Spy
Six's Torch - Rush Spy
Memphis - Change to Courthouse (to prevent bribery), sorry Old'N'Slow, but I thought keeping the city was more important than increasing food for now, doesn't help us to grow the city and lose it to bribery (and it already has a food surplus +5 IIRC)

Press Enter]

Babylonians switch to Republic (but we knew that already )
Egyptians acquire Amphibious Warfare from Chinese
Chinese acquire Refining from the Egyptians
Egyptian Destroyer attacks our Cruiser and loses
Chinese Frigate sink our empty transport (in ship chain to China)

1870 (1)

SKJ completes Oil Caravan
Git's Hole complete Hides Caravan
Spies completed in Heliopolis, Lagomorphia, Spare Oval, Six's Torch & Pax STYOM
Memphis completes to Courthouse, starts cannon
Choose to research Genetic Engineering over Atomic Theory
Polution near Lagomorphia and Spare Oval

Cruiser sinks French Destroyer, French Ironclad
Spy investigates Miletos, size 12, defended by 2 rifles, 3 fanatics, supports 2 frigates + 1 cannon; building city walls not that it will get a chance to use them!
Calvary attacks Miletos, kills Fanatic (size 11)
Calvary attacks Miletos, kills Riflemen (size 10)
Bribe Greek diplomat 319 Gold
Bribe Greek fanatic 178 Gold
Calvary attacks Miletos, kills Riflemen (size 9)
Cannon attacks Miletos, kills Fanatic (size 8)
Cannon attacks Miletos, kills Fanatic (size 7) city empty
Spy poisons Miletos, escapes and gains vet status (size 6)
Spy poisons Miletos, escapes and gains vet status (size 5)
Vet Spy poisons Miletos, captured (size 4)
Spy poisons Miletos, captured (size 3)
Spy poisons Miletos, captured (size 2)
Spy poisons Miletos, captured (size 1)
Exploring spy discovers Thermopolae (size 11)
Near dead Calvary enters Miletos and is so rejuvenated by destroying palace is fully healed; Miletos razed
23 Gold plundered, Capital doesn't move despite 1363 gold in Greek treasury (anyone know why? I thought Capital always moved when a AI had more then 1000 gold )
Greek request audience, 2 rifles, suggest cease fire, denied
offer 1 200 gold for cease fire, accepted
Request peace, denied, offer 150 gold, denied
We demand tribute, they ignore
We bribe Greek Fanatic, 50 gold (hindsight suggests I should have wait for the capital to fall before bribing the units above, and on that note, I bribed a number of units from the greeks in the following turns, with the idea of upgrading with Leo's while we have it, and also the thought that we cannot produce many units with out limited cities, and an AI civ without a capital seems like an easy target
Discover Knossos (size 7)

Investigate Thermopolae, 8 improvements including city walls, defended by 2 riflemen and 1 fanatic (plus supporting one settler), overbuilt Knight in que

Investigate Knossos, 3 improvements including city walls, defended by 1 riflemen and 1 fanatic (plus supporting 1 transport & 1 frigate), building cannon

Bribe greek settlers 200 Gold (none)
Bribe greek settlers 200 Gold (none)

Investigate Alexandria, Size 12, 8 improvement including city walls, defended by 2 Alpine and 2 Riflemen, Building Bank

Investigate Thebes, Size 12, 6 improvements including city walls, plus Great Library and Women's Suffrage, defended by 2 Alpine and 2 Riflemen, Building Library

Investigate Pi Ramesses, Size 12, 9 improvements including Palace and city walls, plus Eiffel Tower, defended by 1 Alpine, 3 Riflemen, 1 Engineer, 1 Transport, Building Alpine

Investigate Elephantine, Size 8, 5 improvements no walls , defended by 1 Alpine, 2 Riflemen (plus supports 1 calvary), Building Engineers

Vet Spy destroys Harbor (Alexandria), escaped unharmed
Vet Spy poisons Elephantine (size 7), captured - Sparrowhawk rethinks Elephantine policy: It seems that there are many Chinese units being held back by Elephantine (they must circumvent the city to attack us, or attack Elephantine, as I am not ready to deal with them enmass, it seems that Elephantine actually helps us where it is
Vet Spy destroys Bank production (Alexandria), captured

End Turn (1)

French Destroyer kills Calvary outside former Miletos site, (left on coast, Sparrowhawk considers going to institute without RCC from anyone )
Chinese Destroyer loses to our Engineer outside Spare Oval (cleaning polution)

1872 AD (2)

Spy produced in Heliopolis, Lagomorphia, Spare Oval, Six's Torch, Pax STYOM

Meet with Greeks, 1 rifleman, they offer peace, we deny, they offer 200 golf for peace, we deny, we demand tribute, they declare WAR! which is what I had hoped for in the meeting, the brief cease fire gave us the opportunity to move our troops into position and road/rail where necessary.

Spy destroys frigate production in Knossos (captured)
Spy destroys Temple in Knossos (captured)
Spy destroys City Walls in Knossos (escaped, vet status)
Spy poisons water in Knossos (size 6); escaped, vet status
Vet Calvary kills Riflemen in Knossos (size 5)
Vet Calvary kills Fanatic in Knossos (size 4)
Bribe Greek Crusaders, 108 Gold
Crusaders destroy Frigate in Knossos (size 3); City empty
Vet spy poisons water in Knossos (size 2); escaped
Vet spy poisons water in Knossos (size 1); escaped
Knossos razed, 4 gold plunder (7 Greek cities remain)
Meet again with Greek emissary, reject cease fire, even after they offer 200 gold in the bargain to maintain offensive and spotless reputation
Bribe Greek settlers 216 Gold

Investigate Athens, Size 5, 6 improvements including city walls plus King Richard Crusade, defended by 1 Riflemen & 1 Fanatic, Building Settlers

Vet spy destroys library in Thermopolae, escapes
Vet spy destroys collesseum in Thermopolae, escapes
Vet spy destroys granary in Thermopolae, escapes
Vet spy destroys temple in Thermopolae, escapes
Bribe Greek Knights, 108 Gold
Vet spy destroys marketplace in Thermopolae, escapes
Vet spy destroys city walls in Alexandria ; captured afterwards (specific improvement selected...see below)
Vet cannon kills Alpine in Alexandria (size 11)
Vet Calvary kills Alpine in Alexandria (size 10)
Vet Calvary kills Riflemen in Alexandria (size 9)
Vet Calvary kills Riflemen in Alexandria (size 8); City empty
Bribe Egyptian Riflemen 228 Gold
Vet Cruiser kills French Explorer (for no reason other then it was there on shore next to my Cruiser)
Spy poisons water in Alexandria (size 7); captured

End Turn (2)

French complete Guerrila Warfare
French Cruiser sinks empty transport
French Cruiser loses to our Cruiser (badly wounding our Cruiser, who is later protected by another Cruiser, and both remain largely immobile for the majority of my turns, however, as they are situated in the opening of the sea between Franch and Egypt (Mediterranian?? ), I don't think this is a bad thing)

Toynbee declares us third most powerful civ behind the Chinese (1), and the French (2), I have neither the time nor the interest in recording the others, for soon enough, history will forget they ever existed anyway

1872 AD (3)

Git's Hold completes Hides Caravan
Pollution near Git's Hole
Spy commissioned in Heliopolis, Lagomorphia, Spare Oval, Memphis

Meet with French Emissary (6 Rifles...apparently Toynbee was wrong??), they offer ceasefire and we accept (purpose of meeting was to protect the Caravan we just landed on French soil and are unable to deliver...the same caravans were previously onboard the sunken transport above, and only unloaded as the transport was at risk (crusier one movement point short of protecting...error on my part of counting tiles); French request peace and we deny, but the UN overrules and we are at Peace , and remain at peace for the remainder of the turnset, which in hindsight allows us to focus on our enemies at hand
Map exchange? They have no use for our maps
Tech exchange? We give them Refrigeration, they give us Genetic Engineering (rather then Atomic Theory or Combustion)
Leo's Upgrades Settlers to Engineers , Knights to Dragoons, Crusanders to Dragoons, and Diplomat to Spy
We give them Amphibious Warfare, they give us Combustion (rather then Atomic Theory), their second choice after Amphibious Warfare was Espionage, so I suppose I could have gotten Atomic Theory, but I thought that Espionage was a good tech not to share ; Leo's upgrades Dragoons to Calvary

Spy destroys city walls in Thermopolae Escapes and is promoted to vet
Cannon destroys Greek Riflemen in Thermopolae (size 10)
Calvary destroys Fanatic in Thermopolae (size 9), promoted to vet
Vet Calvary destroys Riflemen in Thermopolae (size 8)
Vet Calvary destroys Fanatic in Thermopolae (size 7); City Empty
Spy poisons water in Thermopolae (size 6); escaped and promoted
Vet spy poisons water in Thermopolae (size 5), escapes
Vet spy poisons water in Thermopolae (size 4), captured
Spy poisons water in Thermopolae (size 3), escaped and promoted
Vet spy poisons water in Thermopolae (size 2), captured
Vet spy poisons water in Thermopolae (size 1), escaped
Vet calvary enters and destroys what is left of Thermopolae, 5 gold plundered (6 Greek Cites remain)

Meet with Greek Emissary, they request cease fire (denied), they offer 200 gold? (denied)...WAR!!

Vet spy successfully sabotages City Walls (choosen, not random) in Athens, escapes unharmed
Vet Calvary kills riflemen in Athens (size 4)
Bribe Greek Riflemen for 108 Gold

Spy poisons water in Alexandria (size 7); escaped and promoted
Spy poisons water in Alexandria (size 6); captured

Change to Freight in KenobiKave, Change to Palace in Spare Oval, royal architect conveniently has plans already drawn up, and suggests that Palace if constructed on the site of some former building in the city that construction can be completed in 2 years. While this sounds promising and we choose the site and the plans, we are dubious of the long term stability of a building so rushed (High Priest Sparrowhawk has a strange feeling of de ja vous )

End turn (3)

Chinese Emissary, 5 rifles offer cease fire, we deny it and they declare WAR!...again/still

1873 AD (4)

More spies in Heliopolis, Lagomorphia, Six's Torch, Memphis, Pax STYOM
Choose Machine Tools over Atomic Theory, Automobile and Flight (in hopes of getting it before anyone discovers Automobile and upgrade our Cannons to Artillery), not sure when I noticed it as I forgot to write it down, but the French are now researching Automobile

Calvary kills Chinese Calvary, promoted to Vet

Vet spy poisons water in Artemisium (size 4), escaped
Vet spy poisons water in Artemisium (size 3), captured

Vet calvary kills Fanatics in Athens (size 3), city empty
Vet spy poisons water in Athens (size 2), escaped
Spy poisons water in Athens (size 1), captured
Calvary moves into Athens razed, 7 gold plundered, in addition to destroying the city, history strangely forgets the crusade of someone by the name of King Richard??

Oil freight from Sad King Julius arrives in Lyons (French), 102 Gold
Hides freight from Git's Hold arrives in Lyons, 166 Gold

Vet spy poisons water in Alexandria (size 5), escaped
Spy poisons water in Alexandria (size 4), captured
Spy poisons water in Alexandria (size 3), captured

With ship chain in place (shifted from former ship chain to China), 6 spies and 2 calvary set out of Mongolia...and arrive shortly thereafter

Investigate Nishapur (size 5), Barracks, defended by 1 Muskateer, 2 legion, 1 Phalanx, 1 Trireme
Spy Poisons water in Nishapur (size 4), escaped and promoted to vet
Spy poisons water in Nishapur (size 3), captured
Vet Spy poisons water in Nishapur (size 2), captured
Vet spy poisons water in Nishapur (size 1), escaped

Meet with Mongol Emissary, they demand Gunpowder and we deny, they request cease fire and we deny, they declare a continuation of War!!

Vet Calvary land outside Nishapur, Attack and kill Legion in Nishapur, razing city in process and all units within except non-muskateers
Bribe mongol muskateers (I forgot to note price )

Investigate Tabriz (size 5), defended by warrior and phalanx, no improvements, building chariot

Vet spy poisons water in Tabriz (size 4); Escaped

Vet cannon kills egyptian Engineer blocking path
Vet cannon kills Alpine in Alexandria (size 2)

End Turn (4)

French start Cure for Cancer
Chinese develop Leadership
Chinese diplomat outside Memphis, appears to enter city, we get no message (not sure what it did, but diplomat survives encounter)
Greek capital moves to Marathon (we were not the only ones Palace building it seems)
Mongol archers attack our Muskateers and lose

1875 AD (5)

Git's Hold completes Silk Caravan
Spy commissioned in Heliopolis, Lagomorphia, Memphis
Kenobikave completes Spice Caravan
Spare Oval completes Palace, able bodied peasants near city are enlisted to shore up structural difficiencies, oddsmakers refuse bets on longevity of Palace, something about a "rabbit's foot" and the unluckiness of betting on Palace's

Vet spy poisons water in Tabriz (size 3), escaped

Vet spy poisons water in Artemisium (size 2), escaped
Vet spy poisons water in Artemisium (size 1), captured
Vet calvary kills fanatic in Artemisium, razes city, Greeks now have 4 cities, none on our mainland that I can tell

Spy poisons water in Tabriz (size 2), escapes and promoted
Vet spy poisons water in Tabriz (size 1), escapes
Vet calvary attacks Phalanx in Tabriz (razes city), Mongols down to 2 cities

Discover Kashgar (Mongols, size 2)
Vet spy poisons water in Kashgar (size 1), captured
Bribe Mongols Warriors (51 Gold)

Bribe Chinese Diplomat (235 Gold) outside of Memphis

Spy poisons water in Alexandria (size 2), captured
Spy poisons water in Alexandria (size 1), escaped and promoted
Cannon moves into Alexandria, city razed, 27 Gold plundered

* Sparrowhawk stops at this point due to lateness.....posts various questions on Apolyton and reads La Fayettes work on diplomats and spies (vet/non-vet), wishing I had read it sooner, but it is a great read

	22-03-2004 11:28									#334
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Returning to the game several days later, I again reviewed the empire:

Summary of Foreign Minister reports:
Babylonian - Repuplic, $1548 Gold, Engineering, 5 cities
French - Democracy, $1993 Gold, Automobile, 13 cities
Egyptians - Communism, $1250 Gold, Genetic Engineering, 5 cities
Chinese - Republic, $2087 Gold, Combustion, 12 cities
Greeks - Fundamentalism $229 Gold, Steam Engine, 4 cities
Mongols - Despotism, $493 Gold, Engineering, 2 cities

Change Spare Oval to Caravan
Change SKJ to Transport
Change Kenobikave to Spy
Move various offensive units from former Greek front to Egyptian front (using ship chain of course)

Meet with Egyptians, they demand 200 Gold, denied, they offer cease fire, denied...War!!

Vet spy attempts to destroy city walls in Thebes - captured beforehand

End Turn (5)

Egyptian government overthrown, (change to republic)
Egyptian Calvary attacks our Alpine and we win convincingly
Chinese destroyer attacks our Transport and loses and we gain Vet status (who says destroyers are useless )

1876 AD (6)

Spy commissioned in Heliopolis, Kenobi Kave, Lagomorphia, Six's Torch, Memphis, Pax STYOM
Pollution in Lagomorphia, Spare Oval

Bribe Mongol settlers (none) for 356 Gold

Vet spy takes down walls in Thebes, escaped (thank you La Fayette )
Vet calvary kills Alpine in Thebes (size 11)
Vet cannon destroys Alpine in Thebes (size 10)
Vet calvary (2/3 movement) attacks Riflemen and barely loses in Thebes
Vet calvary kills riflemen in Thebes (size 9)
Vet calvary kills calvary in Thebes (size 8)
Vet calvary kills wounded Riflemen in Thebes (size 7), city empty
Spy poisons water in Thebes (size 6), captured
Spy poisons water in Thebes (size 5), escaped and promoted
Vet Alpine kills Egyptian Cannon outside Thebes (Egyptians moving units from direction of Giza)
Vet Calvary kills Chinese Calvary outside Elephantine (if Elephantine is either razed or bribed in the near future, be prepared for Chinese, it is all that stands between Chinese and Memphis/Heliopolis )

Change Six's Torch to Caravan
Change Memphis to Marketplace (in vain hope that we can start celebrations there in the near future)

End Turn (6)

Babylonians complete Engineering

1877 AD (7)

Git's Hole completes Hides Caravan
Spy commissioned in Lagomorphia
Pollution in Lagomorphia and Spare Oval
Spare Oval completes wine caravan

Bribe Greek explorer on south pole 82 gold, explorer must have come from undiscovered Greek city, send explorer back over pole to attempt to discover missing Greek cities (only one of 4 located....strongly consider gifting techs to Greeks in exchange for maps, but figure at this late stage, worshipful may not be possible )

Useless warrior flails against Phalanx in Kashgar, not sure why I attacked, as I might have promoted the Phalanx to vet
Vet Calvary kills Phalanx in Kashgar (size 1), city empty
Vet Calvary moves into Kashgar, city razed, 124 Gold plundered
Karakorum only remaining Mongol city

Transport laden with Spies leaves Sad King Julius and arrives outside Pi Ramesses (destination Thebes)

Spy poisons water in Thebes (size 5), escaped and promoted
Spy poisons water in Thebes (size 4), captured
Spy poisons water in Thebes (size 3), escaped and promoted
Spy poisons water in Thebes (size 2), captured
Vet Spy poisons water in Thebes (size 1), captured
Badly wounded calvary moves into Thebes, razes city by holding a huge book burning ceremony outside what used to be Great Library, United Nations issues world decree that women are no longer allowed to vote as Women's Suffrage is also lost to the world, Egyptians down to 4 cities

Meet with Egyptian emissary, 3 Rifles, they demand 200 Gold, denied!, Cease Fire? Denied!! War!! Accepted!!

Check attitude advisor and city status, despite lose of some trade routes (Thebes) all cities still celebrate with exception of Lagomorphia (and minor worker adjustment keeps them celebrating), and Memphis still not celebrating, Change Lagomorphia to Caravan to replace trade route

Bribe Chinese Cannon outside Elephantine, 304 Gold
Cannon (not vet) dies against Alpine in Elephantine (which still does not have city walls )

Rush Marketplace in Memphis

End Turn (7)

French complete Automobile (which cancels Leo's )
Egyptian Riflemen attacks out stacked Alpine and loses
Chinese Calvary kills our Spy caught in no mand's land near Elephantine (Sparrowhawk error, miscounted number of moves to railroad )
Barbarians appear north of Pax Styom/Spare Oval (Muskateers)

1878 AD (8th and final turn)

Pollution in SKJ
Spy in Heliopolis, Kenobi Kave, Pax STYOM
Six's Torch completes Oil Caravan
Memphis completes Marketplace, starts Bank (but will require a lot to celebrate)
Wine Caravan from Spare Oval arrives in Besancon (French)-166 Gold
Hides Caravan from Git's Hole arrives in Besancon - 194 Gold (x2)

Science Box full (kinda late )

Investigate Lyons (size 13), 14 improvements including city walls plus JS Bach and Hoover :drool: , defended by 2 riflemen, 1 alpine (and supports 3rd riflemen and 1 engineer), building Factory

Steal Automobile from French (Lyons), international incident, still spotless, still at peace with French

Investigate Besancon (size 12), 7 improvements including city walls, defended by 2 alpine, 1 riflemen, 1 transport and 1 calvary, building university

Spy attempts to destroy city walls in Pi Ramesses and is captured in the attempt (capital city and non vet.....La Fayette would )
Vet Spy attempts to destroy city walls in Pi Ramesses and is captured in the attempt
Vet spy attempt to destroy city walls in Pi Ramesses and is successful and escapes!!
Vet Cannon kills Alpine in Pi Ramesses (size 11)
Vet Cannon dies attacking Alpine in Pi Ramesses (Alpine barely scratched)
Vet Calvary dies attacking Alpine in Pi Ramesses (Alpine badly wounded)
Vet Calvary kills Riflemen in Pi Ramesses (size 10)
Vet Calvary kills Riflemen in Pi Ramesses (size 9)
Vet Calvary kills Alpine (badly wounded one from above) in Pi Ramesses (size 8)
Vet Calvary kills Engineer in Pi Ramesses (size 7)
Vet Alpine kills Transport in Pi Ramesses (size 6), city empty
Vet spy poisons water in Pi Ramesses (size 5), captured
Vet spy poisons water in Pi Ramesses (size 4), escaped
Vet spy poisons water in Pi Ramesses (size 3), escaped
Alpine kills Egyptians Cannon advancing from the North (direction of Giza)

Terrorist attack on Palace in Spare Oval further weakens structure, High Priest Sparrowhawk is presumed killed in the attack, body not found, years later archeologists report they found written on a tablet......Sparrowhawk will return!

Summary:
5168 Gold for my successor to work with (similar to what I started with, and I rushed spies in most cities in most turns)
Tax 70%, Science 0%, Lux 30% Celebrations in all but Memphis
Total Income 594, Total Cost 80, Net Income 514 Gold per turn

We still have 9 cities (I didn't bribe one, and may not get a chance at another), our opponents still have 39 cites (plus one barb city...Samarkland)

I beleive the French and the Chinese are our only threats, the Greeks and Egyptians have be reduced to simple targets, and the Babylonians we should be able to take at our leisure, as I did with the Mongols who are unable to even mount a defense

We have a caravan in a Transport (protected by a cruiser) just outside of Besancon
Pi Ramesses (the Egyptian capital) is empty of defenders, and ready to poison and raze (I ran out of spies...again)

Enjoy the turnset Jrabbit, I know I did!!
I apologize again for the delay, both in playing and in posting a log.

* Sparrowhawk

	22-03-2004 12:41									#335
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I should be sleeping by now but I looked in here first and found this. Sparrowhawk gets my vote for the longest "War and Peace (?)" style log. Tomorrow, I look forward to starting to read it all.

Monk

	22-03-2004 13:44									#336
	Remove this text

War & peace indeed - but a great read!

Stu

	22-03-2004 18:47									#337
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Great job, Sparrowhawk!!

Unfortunately, I will be away on business through Thursday this week, then family vacation starting Monday 29 March for a week.

Doubtful I can play my turns, so feel free to skip ahead...

	22-03-2004 22:03									#338
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Just getting started reading this log. It is wonderful work by Sparrowhawk. I highly recommend everyone load and look at the last two saves, 1870 & 1878. Cycling between the saves is very revealing. Sparrowhawk was very successful in razing cities.

Sparrowhawk, I think the Chinese diplomat was stopped by the Courthouse in Memphis.

Group: Could the new former Egyptian cities have name changes to keep clear who "owns" them. And wouldn't it be helpful to the cause for everyone to claim their second city??

Still reading....

Monk

	22-03-2004 22:09									#339
	Increase Your PM Length

Counting as carefully as possible, I make it 10 cities razed this turn by sparrowhawk. Plus, Pi-Ramesses was reduced from 12 to 3. Excellent work!!

About the only fault I see is not bribing one of those cities, the one with Sufferage for instance. If each player can have two cities, sooner is better than later in terms of producing more spies.

Very well done, Sparrowhawk.

Monk

	22-03-2004 23:00									#340
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Totally agree with Monk re gaining 2nd cities and thus being able to produce more spies.

Else we'll run out of time before all the razing can be completed...

	23-03-2004 02:19									#341
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quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit Totally agree with Monk re gaining 2nd cities and thus being able to produce more spies. Else we'll run out of time before all the razing can be completed...

Agree with the first thought --

Disagree with the second --

Not too many cities above size 12 yet -- so the French (with a couple of juicy targets) & the Chinese should be the focus.

Recommend someone taking Pi-Ramses as a second city -- keep the routes, make new ones as the game progresses.

	23-03-2004 06:28									#342
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I prepared this summary, for a couple reasons...

Player	City Founded	City Taken/Bribed
STYOM	Pax STYOM	Six's Torch
Old n Slow	Slowburg(destroyed by barbs)	Oldburg
Sparrowhawk	Spare Oval	none
-Jrabbit	Lagomorphia	Le Bunny
Ben Kenobi	KenobiKave	none
Scouse Gits (1)	Git's Hole	Git's *rse
Julius Brenzaida	Sad King Julius	Brenzaidapolis

One is that Bloody Monk requested that cities be renamed, to clear up who's is who's (and I thought this might help), and the other is to respond to the request that we acquire our second city(ies) as soon as possible.

This second point is one I put a lot of thought into while playing my turns (and indeed, the spy that stole Automobile from Lyons was there to bribe the city...but the French were in democracy, so that proved to be difficult ). While playing I thought about the strategic importance of my second city and the superficial importance.

To explain what I mean by superficial, I considered Thermopolae and Samarkland as my second city. Though I am not a historian by any means, one of my favourite history lessons in school was learning about the Spartans and the battle of Thermopolae, it has long been among my favourite ancient lessons, and it was difficult to raze the city. Samarkland was far more superficial, as I don't think there is any strategic benefit to this city, it is not a port and will soon be the only city on the continent...and that is why I wanted it . My understanding of "The Institute is that it is located alone on an island, with little going for it, not a holiday destination...I thought what better location for the Institute in this game but a city which has been controlled by barbarians almost from the beginning of time . Further, I think this game is well enough at hand that a superficial city will not hurt our chances of winning.

As for strategic cities, as I have hopefully illustrated above, we can only "acquire" 4 more cities, and one of those by the long absent Ben Kenobi. I think we need to be sure we want those 3 remaining cities which are taken by Jrabbit, Scouse Gits and myself before we take them. Having Memphis and Heliopolis makes taking down the remaining Egyptian cities quite simple I think, and perhaps the Babylonians too. Therefore, if we are to take any more Egyptian cities, I would think Elephantine might be an option, as it provides access to the Chinese. Other then that, I don't think the Egyptian cities have any value for us (please don't take Pi Ramesses, or i will feel bad for poisoning it the trade routes can be replaced...and I have already started replacing them). As for bribing Thebes with Woman's Suffrage (and the Great Library), the Great Library is expired, and as far as I know, Suffrage has no value under Fundamentalism (and I assume we are staying in Fundie for the duration ).

I would think that our remaining three cities could include...Lyons, Paris, Beijing, or Marseilles. The first three for the wonders, the last for it's location (beachhead into France).

I am confident that we will not run into a time trouble, and that by 1950 at the latest this game will be mopped up. Having said that, I am not confident that I will necessarily get a chance to add my second city, but if STYOM and Ben Kenobi are not able to play this round either, I should get my chance.

* Sparrowhawk (aka Leo's Toystory )

(Edit: I am trying to remove the space above my table, but not sure what I did wrong, I am still fairly new to HTML ...Edit again: Thanks to Scouse Gits, anyone reading this will have no idea what "space" I am talking about above my table )

Last edited by Sparrowhawk on 20-04-2004 at 05:20

	23-03-2004 10:33									#343
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How did you do that?? Very cool table!!

My point is that something needs to be done so that more builds are possible, and the sooner the better. It doesn't need to be a perfect city, IMHO.

GO WARLORDS!!

Monk

	23-03-2004 13:21									#344
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One of the slight incompatibilities between HTML & vbb code (if I got the latter right?) is the way carriage returns are treated - HTML totally ignores them as white space - vbb uses them all -- it is probable that you have used CRs in the formatting of your table - if so you need to take every last one out - and the space above should vanish ....

Also - pretty good summary young Raptor.

Stu

	23-03-2004 23:34									#345
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Thanks for the help Scouse Gits! Much appreciated!

And I agree with Bloody Monk that we need our new cities soon, I just wanted my second city to be that "perfect city", since they are at such a premium, it makes choosing which one that much harder . Hopefully Scouse Gits will be able to take a French city during his turnset (I think he indicated previously he had his eye on Lyons and Paris), and we can use that to raze the rest of the French cities. Then if -Jrabbit can take a Chinese city when he is back and able to play, we can do the same with the Chinese. I would think that these two cities may be all we need to take the rest of the world. If I get another chance to play, I intend to make sure I take my second city. However, I don't think we need any more then those two additional cities to take the rest of them out.

	26-03-2004 08:26									#346
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btw, as -Jrabbit has stated he is unavailable, I think that makes it up to Scouse Gits to continue, though as I posted in the "Progress" thread, I hope that -Jrabbit will step back in to play his turns when he returns.

	26-03-2004 22:18									#347
	Put an end to popups!

I have the weekend. If you don't mind, SG[1], I'll d/l and try to take my turn before vacation. If not posted by Monday morning 29th, then I'll have been unable to do so...

	29-03-2004 11:26									#348
	1886 and all's well... Enter the AD-FREE zone

It's 1878 and the Warlord Rabbit takes over, takes stock. We are a Fundy nation, Strong and Spotless, earning a net of 470gp/turn through celebratory taxation. We have 9 cities, 5.34 MM ppl (3rd to the 9.6 MM chinese out there).

Per popular request, our colonial cities have been renamed --
Memphis = Oldburg
Heliopolis = Brenzaidapolis

We have 3 of the top 5 cities (Paris 1st, Lyons 3rd-- bot very attractive!). We are at WAR! with the Egyptians, Chinese, Greeks, and Mongols.

We have 10 engineers and a settler, 3 freights, 1 explorer, and 9 transports.
Defensively: a musket, 10 fanatics, a partisan, 5 alpines, and 13 rifles.
Offense: 10 cavalry, 2 cannon
Diplomatic service: one diplomat, 12 spies.
Navy: 2 destroyers, 6 cruisers.
Air force: Nope.

We make some minor adjustments -- like rushing a battleship in Sad King Julius -- and press ENTER.

1879
--Three freights completed.
--rifle takes out Chinese cannon, makes vet.
--Pi-Ramesses (4) is poisoned 3 times (one spy captured), then razed for 35 plunder. La tour Eiffel? C'est fini. Tant pis!
--Bribe barb rifle (82), chinese marine (459)
--Cruiser sinks barb galleon (6 units destroyed ??)
--Egyptians chat. We decline a cease fire until they offer 1150 in GP. Too nice to avoid. Proceed from CF to peace.
--Spice (d), KenobiKave to Besancon, 240 GP.

1880
--SKJ's battleship enters the waters.
--Chinese learn Combustion (subs)
--Mongols chat, offer all 381 of their treasury for a CF. We decline, they declare WAR!
--Silk (d), Git's Hole to Orleans, 468gp.
--Egypt chat -- we demand tribute, they declare WAR!
--We dutifully attack Elephantine, killing all four units inside, poison the water supply twice (one spy lost), and raze it.
--Bribe Egyptian engineer for cost of 168.

1881
--Pollution hits git's Hole, lagomorphia
--Palace completed in Lagomorphia, capital moves.
--Chinese take out a couple of our riflemen.
--Spy susses out Giza defenses.
--Karakorum razed; Mongols destroyed.
--Samarkand, barb stronghold, is size 8, holding 2 rifles and a king. We poison it down to size 5 (losing 3 spies) and move troops into position.
--Oil (d), Lagomorphia to Brenzaidapolis, 332 GP, +3 route.
--We go to 60-10-30 to turn the tech.

1882
--French develop mass Production.
--We learn Machine Tools, select Mobile Warfare over Miniaturization and Atomic Theory.
--Barb king 150
--Map cities of Anyang, Tatung (Chinese) and Ashure (18, Babylonian)
--Samarkand poisoned down to size 2
--Hut = 100gp
--We make landfall in France with 6 spies and an engineer. One spy is expelled.

1883
--Pollution at lago again.
--French chat -- They want to trade techs, we decline. We demand tribute, hoping for war. They, being civilized, decide to grant us mass Production as a tribute!!
--Demanded deliveries: Oil, 6's Torch to Besancon, 343. Dye, Git's Hole to Beijing, 468.
--spies and troops land outside Beijing. Defenses enumerated.
--Barb king inside Samarkand killed, pays 150 (never did that before!). Samarkand razed, but the barb civiliation, unfortunately, cannot be destroyed....
--Two French subs, French transport spotted...

1884
--French demand we withdraw troops. But we just load more into a convenient fortress. Treaty renounced. French declare WAR!
--We lose a DD and an empty transport. Our BB becomes a vet. French lose a cruiser, 2 destroyers, and a cavalry.
--Pollution at SKJ.
--Legendary Egyptian city of Byblos is mapped by intrepid explorer.
--Bribes of 756 total gain us a Chinese DD, Egyptian marine, and Greek knight.
--Our 2nd Battleship empties Besancon.
--Southern Cruiser keeps Greek town of Gortyn empty (3).
--Lyons defenses noted.

1885
--Egypt now Fundy. Barbs near 6's Torch. Pollution @ Git's Hole, Lagomorphia.
--Bribe Greek explorer in deep south, 144
--Too many troops in fortress -- can't access fortified spies!!! Oh, well, we attack Lyons anyway. with walls still in place, we still manage to take the 3 rifles and 2 alpines defending it.
--City renamed Le Bunny. Le booty includes JSBach, Hoover's, 266gp, and Atomic Theory.
--giza posoned down to size 9, 2 spies captured.
--More bribes -- Egyptian engineer and French cavalry.
--Besancon poisoned 3 times, down to size 9. 2 spies captured.
--Spare Oval copper (d) to Beijing, 484gp

1886
--French develop Mobile Warfare, Sun Tzu now useless. Barracks considered.
--French go Fundy, kill one of our empty transports.
--Chinese develop steel.
--Pollution in Lagomorphia and Spare Oval.
--Besancon now down to size 8.
--Orleans walls come down, city empties by artillery.
--Newly recruited soutern explorer finds Argos. Pretty sure marathon and ephesos are just north of there...
--Well, we can't take another city, but we can sure get one ready for SG[1]. It take 5 spies, but the walls of Beijing come down. Artillery and cavalry empty the city, form blockade against reinforcements. (Note to successor -- you may want to activate more troops to prevent dip/spy activity against our land-blockade.

Leaving 4,625 gp and 10 cities. Pop is now 7.11 MM.

Ship chains in place to French beachhead (from Sad King Julius), and to Beijing area of China.

Not detailed in the log is the vast engineering work reuired to get to the remaining Egypt cities, and from Brenzidapolis up toward chinese territory. Engineering crews are working round thclock, but having trouble breaking through heavy chinese resistance...

With our cash flow and production, it's pretty easy to build a new unit in every city, every turn. Rush a fanatic for 120 and incremental purchase from there. Even with the rushing of 2 battleships, I was unable to really deplete the treasure.

Beijing = Magellan's. 'Nuff said.

(Moving to other computer to upload the save. )

	29-03-2004 11:59									#349
	Zipped Save Increase the size of your Attachments

Sorry if this all appears abrupt -- didn't have time to add my usual bold type and copious smilies...

But I leave for the Virgin Islands in the a.m. with my girls for a much-needed respite. Unlikely I'll be online again before Saturday...

Final notes -- There's a French sub out of Marseilles in the southern channel, so have a care.

Identifying the Greek homeland is about all that can be done without mounting a major expeditionary force. They're no threat, but mapping the cities is a necessary evil. That's why I bribed their explorer. We have a CC, a spy, and an ex-Greek knight down there...

The French are toast! Lots of work to do, and they'll be sending tanks our way momentarily. But STEAL THAT TECH and we should be able to fight fire with fire.

I'd have done a bit more, but escewed the all-spy production theory to create some offense with artillery once that came online.

Chinese and French have railroaded nicely for us, but the Greeks, Egyptians, and Babylonians have been lax. I figure a couple tanks will go along way toward clearing enough space for our combat engineers to connect the dots for us...

We have a couple cities threatening to grow, so a brief break to rush the odd sewer system or aqueduct looms.

afaik, sg[1] is next. enjoy, stu...

Attachment: co_1886a.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	29-03-2004 21:57									#350
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Very nice play, Sir Rabbit!! You've earned a vacation. Enjoy!!

Le Bunny was a brilliant choice for your second city.

Monk

	30-03-2004 09:08									#351
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Impressive turnset Bunnyman

The mongols go from a minor nuisance to a note in the history books. The Egyptians are reduced from a minor power to an also ran, and the destruction of both the Chinese and the French begins. Further, you have found the Greeks remaining stronghold of cities, it seems the next choice for your successor is who to attack next, I decided to attack in three directions and was happy with the results, but those were all pretty easy targets, I hope that Scouse Gits chooses between the Chinese and the French and reduces them as a threat before taking on both (while continuing the attack on the Greeks & Egyptians of course )

I enjoyed the read, and look forward to hearing how SG(1) continues the slaughter.

* Sparrowhawk

	30-03-2004 20:09									#352
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Agree with all of the above -- Good to have Le Bunny in the clutch.

	31-03-2004 13:31									#353
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Yup it's I both here & in the Dirty - will play asap

Stu

	16-04-2004 14:32									#354
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Haven't forgotten - just been busy - will play this coming week if not at the weekend.

Stu

	17-04-2004 23:23									#355
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I've started - nearly played a turn - taken my second city - built many SH - re-established celebrations.
The saga continues ...

	17-04-2004 23:55									#356
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Can we assume Bejing is now in Warlordian hands?



Superhighways are a good choice, I forgot they were possible now

	19-04-2004 13:53									#357
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The city of Git's *Rse formally known as Beijing is indeed a new jewel in our Imperial Crown.

A note about SuperHighways - for a celebrating city in Fundy the effect is virtually the same as a personal Colossus. However, if the city falls out of celebration the damn thing is virtually useless. Successors take note.

I am in turn seven - but have hit a snag - on checking F3 I note that we have taken two rep hits and are no longer Spotless - I am not aware of any action that I have taken that might have caused this - but nonetheless it has happened ...
What should I do?
Unwind to Spotless and try again - I have all the saves?
Or continue and spend a term in The Institute?

Stu

	19-04-2004 16:51									#358
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I'm not on the rota for this game, but I say to continue!
The Institute won't be so bad (we'll make room for you ), and it's not ideal to have to play all of your turns again, especially at this stage of the game. I'm looking forward to reading your write-up.

	19-04-2004 19:07									#359
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1886(0) - Beijing -> Git's *Rse falls to our Holy Forces - thanks JR -- A Succession Game First - Civil War splits China into Chinese & Sioux. We take Magellan's and 96g, Chinese partisans assimilated. Barb Musks on Holy Home Continent eliminated. Several Celebrations re-engineered - Bad Rabbit! F2 reports 255 Alpines in production!?? We have no superHighways - switch to a white goods spurt. Re-align chinese ship chain for Git's *Rse. wondering what I have forgotten - press Enter ...

Extract 225g tribute from Sioux

1887(1) = SH in Brenzaidapolis, Le Bunny. Sewers in PaxSTYOM - too late! It appears that SS doesn't work like an Aqueduct as the potential growth was lost . Two more celebrations. Orleans reduced from 9 to 3 - three spies lost, two new Vets. French sub sunk by blockading Cruiser. BB keeps flag down in Besancon - don't like cities behind the front. Spice(d) Spare Oval-Shanghai, 714g; Kill a Chinese dip - & buy a second. Find the dateline the hard way when a goto goes bad - downside of playing on a laptop -

Rudely reminded that the French have Mobile Warfare when a tank has an unsuccessful go at one of my enforted Marines.

1888(2) = The Empire is now Celebrating, the grand SH project is almost complete and the odd Aqueduct & Sewer. Orleans razed without loss for 22g & Mobile Warfare. Silver(d), SKJ-Xinjian, 665g - that should be box full - but we don't have a box at the moment.

1889(3) = Most cities now move onto spy production. Gold(d), SO-Grenoble, 972g. It takes four spies with two fatalities to take down the walls of Tours. Tour flag down size 8.

1890(4) = Tours reduced to Size 4 - but I seem to be killing an inordinate number of young ladies. Dye(d), PaxS-Canton, 810g. Oh yes - Palace moved to Git's Hole somewhere in here.

1891(5) = Tours razed for 30g. Besancon - Walls and flag down reduced to size 7.

1892(6) = Chinese forces sneak attack. Besancon razed for the loss of only one young lady and the gain of 33g. Misclick sends Freight off into darkest jungle . Tatung razed. Industial Sabotage commenced upon Xinjian & Grenoble.

1893(7) = Many assaults against our defensive positions result in many dead AI units. Copper(d), Le Bunny-Giza, 282g. Gems, SO-Rheims, 387g - box full. Grenoble - walls down. Grenoble razed. Sabotage against Paris initiated.

1894(8) = Computers->Robotics. Xinjiang - walls down - the very last improvement. Paris - walls down. Cherbourg razed 40g. Both Paris & Xinjiang reduced somewhat.

1895(9) = Paris passes into memory 44g. Much sabotage of Rheims - but the Walls still stand. Oil(d), ST-Nanking, 1082g! Xinjiang - an empty size 2 city.

1896(10) = Walls down in Rheims. Xinjian razed 34g. Gems(d), PaxS-Oldburg, 664g. One spy short - Rheims is flag down size 2.

I chose to neither invest in aqueduct & sewers for Le Bunny, nor to dismantle it's Library and University complex - we may not stay in fundy for ever -- I think that apart from a slightly tarnished rep - the empire is in good shape ...

Stu

Attachment: co_a1896.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	19-04-2004 19:29									#360
	Remove this text

Missed out:
Miniaturisation->Computers
in about 1890

Wonder what else I forgot? Sorry, guys, labouring under a rotten head cold at the moment ...

Stu