 |
| |
|
|
Ted Striker
|
 |
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:30
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I would have to disagree. No resurrection, no basis for YOUR brand of Christianity.
See, lots of people think that a good deal of what Jesus said (or Paul said, whatever) is a smashingly good philosophy to live by. The basics of "Love one another," the golden rule, etc. are very powerful ethical statements, ones that really haven't been improved upon. So if one sees the moral teachings of Christianity as the best around and so is Christian because of that, I don't see why the reality of a resurrection is necessary. You may not consider such folks "Christian," but that's not really your judgment to make.
Oh, and many ancient religions featured gods who died and were resurrected, including Osiris, Tammuz, Attis, Dionysus, Mithra, etc. Osiris, in fact, was killed, resurrected and then ascended to the Egyptian "heaven" to judge the dead and send them to the appropriate place in the afterlife. |
For once I actually agree with you.
I think over the centuries the message has been lost because of dogma.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Straybow
|
 |
SG(2)… gone but not forgotten
Jan 1970
time: 23:30
|
|
* Straybow realizes he didn't post a response 'cos Settler2 was down
quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
"The central mystery of Christianity isn't some avataristic manifestation supplied as a humanistic example or social tool. "
So what is the central mystery? |
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
It's still going |
quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Actually, if this EXACT THING was taught as a core priniciple of Christianity, it would be a much cooler religion. |
Yes, it is "still going," and that is what it taught in many churches. And it is way cool!
The Incarnation is practical—as a whole person the Son became a human being. This was not to provide an example of what a human could be, as though by some effort you or I could follow and become what He is.
Towards man, He delivered a message: that He was doing God's will in making a way for us where we fall short. Everything else was directed towards God: taking on Himself sin, dying on the cross, destroying the power of sin and hell, raising from the dead to fulness of divine glory.
We cannot take on sin, we sin and it destroys us. We cannot take on death, again it destroys us. We cannot overcome these things and graduate into divinity, as Eastern mysticism proclaims. We can petition to be identified with Christ, what Jesus called being born of the spirit.
It doesn't happen by doing good deeds. It doesn't happen by attending a rite. It doesn't happen by agreeing with doctrine. It doesn't rub off from Dr. Graham or The Pope. It happens by communicating with God, being wooed by Him, and accepting Him. Marriage is a powerful parallel to this aspect of the relationship (see Ephesians 5:25ff for a little more on that).
That is the central mystery of Christianity. God in Christ came to take you to himself.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
It shouldn't be "bad" to raise Sophia (beautiful name) in an non religious environment.
I think it is imperative though that you dont try to feed your opinions down her throat. when she asks about god tell her what people from both sides think and when she asks you "but daddy what do YOU think" just tell her, without passion or fear
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
i liked what an ancient philosopher saaid which basically was that there maybe a god, there may not.
however what is imkportant is to strive to better ourselves while here on earth. anthropocentrism.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Cruddy
|
|
Just a thought I haven't seen anybody else raise...
I see nothing wrong with raising a child to have some sort of spiritual awareness.
I'm not advocating lots of slavish dogma, the ritual rejection of Satan or the stoning of the devil...
I just think it might help with getting over the idea of right and wrong.
Raising a child without religion of ANY sort might fall into that trap.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
who's mel tillis?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
but cruddy, since when does religion equates moral intelligence?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ben Kenobi
|
 |
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:30
|
|
quote:
I said that they could also have wanted to stone him because he was a troublemaker who was stirring up anti-Pharisee sentiment.
|
Fair enough. Boris, it's not that I don't get what you are saying, I'm not sure where you are coming from, so I have to close off some avenues first. This is a very good point, since Jesus did call the Pharisees 'white sepulchres'.
However, we are privileged to have the account of Jesus' trial. What charges do they lay against Jesus?
John 19:7
"The Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God."
Again, and the passage I alluded to earlier,
John 8:58-59
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
It seems clear to me from these passages that the crime that merited stoning was blasphemy, and not mere criticism of the Pharisees.
Before I rebut Boris further...
JohnT: Are we mangling your thread?
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
st_swithin
|
|
10069
Nov 2002
time: 05:30
|
|
Time to buy a blue Jaguar, huh?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ben Kenobi
|
|
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:30
|
|
quote:
citing a Biblical passage wherein he makes claims to divinity is rather circular.
|
I believe I asked this question in my last post...
Why should we accept the moral teachings in the bible as authoritative and not the rest?
I'm not going to rebut anything else unless you answer this question first.
Last edited by Ben Kenobi on 09-09-2003 at 08:54
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ted Striker
|
|
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:30
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Straybow
* Straybow realizes he didn't post a response 'cos Settler2 was down
quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
"The central mystery of Christianity isn't some avataristic manifestation supplied as a humanistic example or social tool. "
So what is the central mystery? |
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
It's still going |
quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Actually, if this EXACT THING was taught as a core priniciple of Christianity, it would be a much cooler religion. |
Yes, it is "still going," and that is what it taught in many churches. And it is way cool!
The Incarnation is practical—as a whole person the Son became a human being. This was not to provide an example of what a human could be, as though by some effort you or I could follow and become what He is.
Towards man, He delivered a message: that He was doing God's will in making a way for us where we fall short. Everything else was directed towards God: taking on Himself sin, dying on the cross, destroying the power of sin and hell, raising from the dead to fulness of divine glory.
We cannot take on sin, we sin and it destroys us. We cannot take on death, again it destroys us. We cannot overcome these things and graduate into divinity, as Eastern mysticism proclaims. We can petition to be identified with Christ, what Jesus called being born of the spirit.
It doesn't happen by doing good deeds. It doesn't happen by attending a rite. It doesn't happen by agreeing with doctrine. It doesn't rub off from Dr. Graham or The Pope. It happens by communicating with God, being wooed by Him, and accepting Him. Marriage is a powerful parallel to this aspect of the relationship (see Ephesians 5:25ff for a little more on that).
That is the central mystery of Christianity. God in Christ came to take you to himself. |
bah that's not the mystery
if it was a mystery you wouldn't be able to explain it
|
|
| |
|
|
|
lord of the mark
|
 |
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:30
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
LOTM:
Are you a recent convert or what ?  |
or is it my enthusiasm for Judaism as a way of life? Well that owes something to this thread Few things inspire me with an appreciation for Judaism like an atheist/christian debate like this - an extended, generally joyless, expolaration of brainwashing, bitterness, resurrection, etc. Makes me appreciate a religion, which, while certainly intellectual enough, is very much a religion of the whole person, not just the mind. All this discussion of not giving a child a "religious education" so she can make up her own MIND later - reminds me of my own religious education, long ago in Brooklyn, in a Progressive Synagogue in an Orthodox neighborhood. I dont remember brainwashing or sophisticated arguments - i remember the singing, the light streaming through the windows, the taste of hamentaschen, the aroma of challah, the pride I had when i chanted the torah blessings in a loud clear voice in front of the whole congregation. I cant imagine putting that off to adulthood. The entire discussion seems based on an assumption that religion lives in the frontal cortex of the brain, that this is a question of faith versus reason - as the West has debated for the last 300 years or so - not a question of BEING - before we think, we ARE. We seem to ignore what philosophy has struggled with since Hegel - the relationship of THOUGHT and BEING.
You see Spif, my Judaism is very much influenced by the thought of Buber and Rosenzweig - whose thought, In the existentialist tradition, goes beyond thought, and examines the preconditions of thought.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:30.
Apolyton Time is 00:30. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
07-09-2003 08:36
|