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devilmunchkin
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first circle of the inferno
Jul 2001
time: 05:30
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i think sophie will be fine and perhaps better off in an irreligious household. she'll learn to think on her own and not be dependent on some big old man in the sky. SHe'll learn to take responsibility for her mistakes and successes rather than lean on something else. ANd perhaps, if you let her know at some point that other people believe in christianity, she'll look at things with an open yet skeptical mind...but yet be strong enough to not fall prey to it.
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Ramo
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Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:30
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My mom is Moslem, but she had never forced me to go to a Mosque, etc. I think that's definitely the right approach. Although, I wish I had a little more exposure to religion when I was younger - not as "the truth," but as another academic subject (which I've been getting a lot more acquinted to, ironically, after 9/11).
John, IMO it's perfectly cool to teach Sophie all you want about Catholicism, as long as you let her form, and keep, her own opinions.
Last edited by Ramo on 02-09-2003 at 03:15
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Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:30
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A lot of this discussion misses the point.
Raising your child catholic or any established church community, has a lot of social and economic benefits - better education, a moral reference point or framework, a community of parents like yourself to back you up and socialise with, freebies like access to holiday houses 
You don't have to be a fanatic about the relgious part of it. But the ties you make are very handy all through your life, in business, politics, sports, whatever. You'll never walk alone. It certainly helps make me. And if something happened to me I know my family would be looked after.
I do like going to church with my kids, its fun. I feel proud.
My own views on aspects of the faith I keep to myself, like most Dads.
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Soul Survivor
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UChicago
May 2003
time: 05:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
If you mean by "deal with", pretend rather than face up to it, then yes.
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so you'd rather tell your 6 year old that they'll never see their grandma ever again, and someday they'll end up the same way? dead and forgotten.
quote:
In my experience religious people tend to suffer the same rate of ******* occurrence as the rest of us. Despite the claims of religion I have never seen evidence to the opposite.
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That may be entirely true. But there is no denying Christian morals and ethics are an inherently good way to live.
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It's irrational and should not be taught to children at all. It's hopeless trying to tell your children the value of honesty and integrity and then inflict such wild and flagrantly self contradictory hypotheses on them. In answer to religious questions and questions about death and destinty it's best to say "nobody really knows" since that is pretty much the truth. |
What kind of ****ing depressing life are you living??? They're nice myths to know and experience. Just because kids are taught Christian beliefs early in life doesn't mean they're going to turn out to be fundamentalist wacko's going on Crusades to free the holy land. Kids are not ready for reality, and their exposure to it should be in small doses until they're ready. Let them enjoy their childhood, so at least they'll think they have answers instead of constantly asking "Why?... I don't know" A kid needs a parent, part of being a parent is knowing everything.
Yes, questioning ideas and beliefs is a good thing, but kids don't need to be taught that until they're 11 or 12 years old. Its not like they're going to revolutionize quantum theory at that point! A child's mind is not rational, therefore trying to impose a rational system on them from the beginning will only hurt them in the long run. Why should an entire generation of children lose their childhood?
Besides, like AH pointed out church provides children with many social oppurtunities. I'm not advocating that children should be forced to read the bible to the letter, just that they experience religion until they're ready to start making their own ideas!
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Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:30
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johnt: it's your duty to raise the child catholic. that's what the church says.
unlike you, i grew up in a religious household. mom was, after all, a convert, and converts are always more devout than those born into the faith.
if you do decide to raise sophie in the faith, start going to mass ever week; it'll be hard at first, but it gets easier as time goes on. and hell, it's only and hour or so a week. enroll the kid in sunday school.
they'll start questioning their beliefs and growing spiritually in a truly meaningful way by the time they turn into teens anyway, so don't worry about them being so brainwashed.
if you decide not to raise the child in your faith, don't restrict their access to it. if a friend wants to take them to church, let them (unless they're southern baptist. i don't think you want your kid scarred at an early age by being told she's going to hell.) be there for them, and answer their questions with your answers as best as you can, and help them explore.
in the end, it's up to you. but you might as well cover all the bases by going ahead and baptising her. 
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Agathon
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Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Soul Survivor
so you'd rather tell your 6 year old that they'll never see their grandma ever again, and someday they'll end up the same way? dead and forgotten. |
Well, that's what I was told and it wasn't the terrible life-scarring experience you seem to think it would be.
If you read what I said, you will see that I recommend saying "Nobody knows" when it comes to religious and eschatalogical issues. I say that because it's the truth: nobody really knows.
quote:
That may be entirely true. But there is no denying Christian morals and ethics are an inherently good way to live. |
Yes there is. I don't know why people assume there isn't. The puritanical attitude towards sex and the conservative economic attitudes of many Protestant denominations are not something that children should be browbeaten into believing.
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What kind of ****ing depressing life are you living??? They're nice myths to know and experience. Just because kids are taught Christian beliefs early in life doesn't mean they're going to turn out to be fundamentalist wacko's going on Crusades to free the holy land. |
I don't think that people should lie to their children about such matters. In any case it is a big step from lying to one's children to enrolling them in a religious cult, so your argument is invalid as it stands.
quote:
Kids are not ready for reality, and their exposure to it should be in small doses until they're ready. Let them enjoy their childhood, so at least they'll think they have answers instead of constantly asking "Why?... I don't know" A kid needs a parent, part of being a parent is knowing everything. |
That's a terrible attitude to take. After all being afraid of things one doesn't know anything about is a hallmark of irrationality. The best thing for us to do as an example to our children is to know our limits. After all if it is made clear to them that nobody knows they aren't going to feel left out of it.
quote:
Yes, questioning ideas and beliefs is a good thing, but kids don't need to be taught that until they're 11 or 12 years old. Its not like they're going to revolutionize quantum theory at that point! A child's mind is not rational, therefore trying to impose a rational system on them from the beginning will only hurt them in the long run. Why should an entire generation of children lose their childhood? |
This is empirically false. Children are often highly rational. In fact they are more rational than adults. This is because as new users of language they tend to be more finicky about the rules of logic because, as new and unsure users, they have to be. That is why they often ask such disarming (and wholly warranted) questions about (bad) adult behaviour.
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Besides, like AH pointed out church provides children with many social oppurtunities. I'm not advocating that children should be forced to read the bible to the letter, just that they experience religion until they're ready to start making their own ideas! |
I don't see why children should experience religion as some basis of belief. There are plenty of other ways in which children can enjoy social opportunities and some of these don't involve religious guilt tripping.
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02-09-2003 02:12
I agree with Agathon 
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