04-09-2003 09:12									#1
	Europe, US Publics Diverge Drastically On Foreign Policy Remove this text

The German Marshall Fund did an interesting survey of public attitudes in Europe and the US regarding foreign policy. Here are the results.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...4-2003Sep3.html

Here is a quote showing that Europe is increasingly full of pacifists, while the martial spirit is alive and well in the US...

quote: The poll found that Europeans and Americans shared similar views in identifying the biggest threats to global security: international terrorism, North Korea's and Iran's access to weapons of mass destruction , Islamic fundamentalism and the Arab-Israeli conflict. But they sharply disagreed over the use of military force to deal with global threats. About 84 percent of Americans said war may be used to achieve justice, while only 48 percent of Europeans agreed.

Here's the money shot...

quote: Craig Kennedy, president of the German Marshall Fund, said the results suggested that European anger, while focused on the Bush administration, went deeper. "There is a Bush style that really does drive Europeans up a wall," Kennedy said. "But would it go away if a Democrat took over the White House tomorrow? Frankly I don't think so. The poll suggests that Bush's policies are pretty well in sync with American public opinion. If you had a Democrat, they would still have to work basically within those kinds of public constraints. The policies that annoy most Europeans would still be there."

And here's a funny one. While the US has been accused by some on Apolyton as wanting to be a superpower on the cheap (you know who you are), Europe is riven with an even larger contradiction on this score...

quote: The poll reported that Europeans want to see the European Union become a superpower but said they wanted it to cooperate with, rather than compete against, the United States. At the same time, a sizeable majority of Europeans do not want the EU to drastically increase defense spending.

And those Germans can never be trusted with power.

quote: The biggest internal change from last year's survey occurred in Germany, the poll found. A year ago Germans seemed uncertain about their global role and about whether Europe or the United States was their natural partner. That ambiguity has faded, with 82 percent of those surveyed saying that Germany must play an active part in world affairs, and 70 percent believing that the EU should become a superpower -- sizeable increases in both figures.

Let the games begin!

	05-09-2003 08:38									#2
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quote: "But would it go away if a Democrat took over the White House tomorrow? Frankly I don't think so. The poll suggests that Bush's policies are pretty well in sync with American public opinion. If you had a Democrat, they would still have to work basically within those kinds of public constraints. The policies that annoy most Europeans would still be there."

The phrase "Its not what you say, its the way that you say it" springs to mind. Bush lacks the eloquence to persuade Europeans. Find a new Pres who is of the same mind, but a sweet talker, and things would be different I'm sure.

	05-09-2003 08:43									#3
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We need a European Superpower (a democratic superpower to rival the US), however I highly doubt we'll ever get one.

It'll probably be China, however the word "democratic" does not come to mind.

	05-09-2003 08:45									#4
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It is easier for Americans to sit at home and talk of war than it is for most people who happen to have much better first hand knowledge of what political violence actually does. I would guess that worldwide (since the US and western europe account for what, 12-15% of humanity?)the numbers would come closer to Europe's than the US's. And 9/11 did not change this much.

	05-09-2003 08:46									#5
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As usual, Europeans do not seem to realize that American leaders are quite naturally, destined to rule the world.

Great Britain doesn't even realize the reality that it's a colony of the United States, for instance.

	05-09-2003 08:50									#6
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Great Britain doesn't even realize the reality that it's a colony of the United States, for instance.

Protectorate, not a colony.

	05-09-2003 08:51									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch Protectorate, not a colony.

If that makes you feel better . . . .

	05-09-2003 09:58									#8
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I agree that Europe will have to get over its pacifism if it truly wants to be a superpower. Today, it can influence events primarily by being obstuctionists at the UN. If they had real power, they could take a leadership role in solving the worlds problems, such as terrorism. I believe a superpower EU would have been there with us in Iraq because it would not have felt the need to be obstructionist.

	05-09-2003 10:38									#9
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A European superpower. riiight

The time of the superpowers is rapidly passing - and the most important thing assaulting it are the multinational corporation structures, based mostly in the US. Europe should look to preserving its own economic viability, and that is a hell of task, because US can bring resourses and labor from all over the world.

No offense to Euro's but you might be in for some tough times, mates

	05-09-2003 10:45									#10
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Europe's future looks peachy. A succesfully operating socio-economic block that nobody pays much attention to. It'll be great.

	05-09-2003 10:56									#11
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By then, I'll live in Logan, Utah Province, Sino American Autonomous Region (SAAR), China.

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	05-09-2003 11:07									#12
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"About 84 percent of Americans said war may be used to achieve justice, while only 48 percent of Europeans agreed."

"War" and "Justice" have each quite a different meaning for us than for you.

	05-09-2003 11:09									#13
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That's cause you guys like killing each other for fun.

	05-09-2003 11:20									#14
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Put that in the past tense, and you have a point.

	05-09-2003 11:23									#15
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Not really

The Balkans are pretty much always up to no good unless someone is putting the smackdown on them. Then there is Chechnya.

	05-09-2003 11:27									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yeah, but what about your civil war in Columbbia?

	05-09-2003 11:28									#17
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What about your 100 year ongoing civil wars in Africa?

	05-09-2003 11:30									#18
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Africa is in Europe?

	05-09-2003 12:01									#20
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Columbia is in North America?

	05-09-2003 12:02									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar

What are you laughing at Chechen baby killer?

	05-09-2003 12:10									#22
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler Africa is in Europe?

Same difference.

	05-09-2003 12:19									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker That's cause you guys like killing each other for fun. quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler Put that in the past tense, and you have a point.

That is the massive dividing line, isn't it?

Can't say I blame you.

	05-09-2003 13:22									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Columbia is in North America?

Then start shouting USNA! USNA! USNA!

	05-09-2003 13:23									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Same difference.

You mean the swallows are the same?!?

	05-09-2003 13:50									#26
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler You mean the swallows are the same?!?

Well they can be different, but obviously you aren't going to team an African swallow with a European swallow without seeing a few coconuts floating in the channel.

	05-09-2003 14:22									#27
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Btw, using Chechnya to define Europe is like using Texas to define the US

	05-09-2003 16:12									#28
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On the issue of pacifism:
Roland has already mentioned the issue above. I would like to take it further as some people around here (you should know who you are) seems to mix up pacifism with the opinion that war cannot be used to achieve justice. Pacifism is in this context used as an insult. As for example DanS is: "Here is a quote showing that Europe is increasingly full of pacifists, while the martial spirit is alive and well in the US...".

As for the survey: I'm quite sceptical of this kinds of surveys. First off, there's a great risk that the results are influenced by the questions. Second, the survey is made on 8,000 people in eight countries. The article doesn't say much about how those people have been chosen but I think there's reasons to take the figures with a huge grain of salt.

	05-09-2003 17:40									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker What are you laughing at Chechen baby killer?

I hope your now joking right ?
Otherwise, i can think of a few more examples in which this sentence applies to you ...

	05-09-2003 17:44									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch The phrase "Its not what you say, its the way that you say it" springs to mind. Bush lacks the eloquence to persuade Europeans. Find a new Pres who is of the same mind, but a sweet talker, and things would be different I'm sure.

Absolutely. Clinton was quite popular here because he understood how to say stuff to the international community, his international policies weren't really all that different to Bush's (pre 9/11).

To a lot of us Euros listening to Bush (and even more so some of his cronies) is a bit like having someone urinate on you and tell you you should be enjoying it.