09-09-2003 22:59									#91
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Racism is morally repugnent so making admissions policy based upon race is also morally repugnent.

	09-09-2003 23:21									#92
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Part of the problem is definitely the values instilled by their parents. Some minority children think the only way they can become successful is by becoming a basketball player or becoming a rapper. If they were taught to work hard and become educated, so maybe they can give their children a better life than their parents gave them.

Unfortunately this problem is very difficult to solve, because there are no laws about what parents must teach their children.

The biggest problem with AA is that minority children from middle and upper class families who get all the tutoring and the private counseling and college planning end up getting the most from the system. Were they disadvantaged because of their race? Absolutely not. The system needs to be changed.

	09-09-2003 23:29									#93
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quote: Isn't the University of Texas a public school? Thats pretty ironic seeing how DF is so much against public education.

How is that ironic? I'm already being forced to pay for it. In a perfect world, I wouldn't be forced to pay for it, and as such I'd be in private education. But unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world, and even if I shell out for private education I'll still be paying for public education. Immoral? It certainly is, but it isn't immoral for me to find a way to derive benefit from what is being forced on me.

	09-09-2003 23:32									#94
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The lima deltas on the supreme court who voted that declared that making admissions policies based upon race wasn't reacism are fools who should be recalled.

	10-09-2003 05:51									#95
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun "reverse racism" as in, white men sure have it tough now because of AA

Which wasn't the point of my post...

	10-09-2003 07:16									#96
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quote: How is that ironic? I'm already being forced to pay for it. In a perfect world, I wouldn't be forced to pay for it, and as such I'd be in private education. But unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world, and even if I shell out for private education I'll still be paying for public education. Immoral? It certainly is, but it isn't immoral for me to find a way to derive benefit from what is being forced on me.

Its ironic because one of the institutions that you rail against is educating you. Its like if I'm against any type of national service and I join the army, I'd be going against one of my beliefs.

	10-09-2003 08:14									#97
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So it's ok for you guys to call me a racist because I support AA??

So how do you feel when AA supporters make the bastardizing statement that YOU are racist because you oppose AA??

	10-09-2003 08:49									#98
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How can you make that statement because opposing AA means no advantage to anybody based on skin color, thus everyone is equal, therefore no racism.

	10-09-2003 08:58									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia How can you make that statement because opposing AA means no advantage to anybody based on skin color, thus everyone is equal, therefore no racism.

On the other hand, some people would oppose AA if they felt it was giving any sort of aid to minorities, just because said people are racist twits. Different people will have different rationales.

	10-09-2003 09:07									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak I think those in college, and those with opportunities shoud be there and have those privaledges because they worked for them, not because they were handed such graces for the color of their skin.

I have to disagree with this.

You think Boosh got in Yale because he had good academic credentials, or because of his family connection?

	10-09-2003 09:16									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia How can you make that statement because opposing AA means no advantage to anybody based on skin color, thus everyone is equal, therefore no racism.

Yeah -- eliminating AA will magically create true equality, AND eliminate racism.





I'm a whitey -- I don't hate my own race. I am not racist, and neither are people who oppose AA are necessarily all racist either.

Why can't you give me the same respect that I give you guys?

	10-09-2003 09:44									#102
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quote: I have to disagree with this. You think Boosh got in Yale because he had good academic credentials, or because of his family connection?

I don't know, i haven't seen his high school transcripts or test scores...have you?

	10-09-2003 10:14									#103
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quote: But unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world, and even if I shell out for private education I'll still be paying for public education. Immoral? It certainly is, but it isn't immoral for me to find a way to derive benefit from what is being forced on me.

I guess it isn't immoral for you to compromise your beliefs? :cure:. Like LoA said, if he was against the military, he wouldn't join the army for the benefits (paying for college). That would just be silly. By being against public education and then going to a public school because 'you are paying for it anyway' is hypocritical to the max... and seem to show you have no problem with public education when it benefits you.

Anyway, I'm at a private law school, but I have no problem paying for public universities.

	10-09-2003 11:30									#104
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LoA,

quote: Its ironic because one of the institutions that you rail against is educating you.

True, and if I had my way, I would not be sending tax dollars to support it. Now, since I am forced to do so, I'm certainly going to find some way to get value for my money. Nothing immoral there, as long as I don't actually support having the institution. I'd vote against it in a second.

quote: Its like if I'm against any type of national service and I join the army, I'd be going against one of my beliefs.

No, actually you wouldn't.

Imran,

quote: I guess it isn't immoral for you to compromise your beliefs

It isn't compromising my beliefs. I would vote against public education in a second, but as long as I'm being forced to pay for it, I'm going to try to derive value for my money.

quote: Like LoA said, if he was against the military, he wouldn't join the army for the benefits (paying for college).

That isn't actually what he said.

quote: By being against public education and then going to a public school because 'you are paying for it anyway' is hypocritical to the max...

No, railing against public education and then voting in favor of it would be hypocritical.

	10-09-2003 14:47									#105
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David Floyd, this thread ultimately proves what a racist you are.

	10-09-2003 15:41									#106
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DFloyd,

Assuming taxes are indeed stolen and immoral then nobody has a right to expect money out of the government. Stay consistant, man; if a system - say, the welfare system - is immoral, why doesn't the same "immoral" label apply to the ones who upkeep said system? Why doesn't your celebrated personal responsibility work here?

Also, without knowing anything about your financial ressources, I'd think it's unlikely you've paid enough in taxes to match the amount of money the government is using on your education. Or to put it differently, the money you want back is probably a bigger amount than the taxes you've paid.

	10-09-2003 16:04									#107
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What is race? Race is nothing.

But people with frecless disturb me. Wierd buggers.

	10-09-2003 17:59									#108
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Maybe I should just call all anti-AA people racist . . .

	10-09-2003 18:32									#109
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Maybe I should call all women butterflies and tell people I live in Lilliputin but I don't think anyone would take me seriously.

	10-09-2003 19:00									#110
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quote: Assuming taxes are indeed stolen and immoral then nobody has a right to expect money out of the government.

Certainly. But when money is being taken from me, I have every moral right to get it back from the government any way I can.

quote: Stay consistant, man; if a system - say, the welfare system - is immoral, why doesn't the same "immoral" label apply to the ones who upkeep said system? Why doesn't your celebrated personal responsibility work here?

Because I am not responsible for the government taking my money. I'd vote against public education, and pretty much every other tax, in a heartbeat, but while I'm paying those taxes, I WILL find a way to get value in return.

quote: Also, without knowing anything about your financial ressources, I'd think it's unlikely you've paid enough in taxes to match the amount of money the government is using on your education. Or to put it differently, the money you want back is probably a bigger amount than the taxes you've paid.

You'd be surprised, but in any case, I guarantee you that the government is not investing more in my education than I'll pay them over my lifetime. Social Security taxes, BY THEMSELVES, will probably exceed my education expenses, and it's doubtful I'll ever see any of that back directly.

	10-09-2003 19:03									#111
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Maybe I should just call all anti-AA people racist . . .

You could but you'd have no case. Though the people who oppose making race the deciding factor have an excellent case to say the pro-AA people are bigots.

	10-09-2003 19:05									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin You could but you'd have no case. Though the people who oppose making race the deciding factor have an excellent case to say the pro-AA people are bigots.

If you want to call people racist, who are not racist go ahead, but it won't help your argument at all.


Look at me -- I'm a white person who hates my own race!

	10-09-2003 19:06									#113
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If you want to make race the deciding issue on whither or not someone gets into a university then you are, by definition, a racist.

	10-09-2003 19:09									#114
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And that's where you're wrong, since I am not a racist person.

But believe what you want to believe -- I use a different rationale, as I have already tried to explain, on why AA would be a good, temporary policy.


But if I want to play the same game you're playing, I would have to wager, that those who oppose AA just want to keep those darkies from getting TOO uppity.

	10-09-2003 19:14									#115
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quote: And that's where you're wrong, since I am not a racist person.

If you support AA, I'd have to agree with Oerdin. AA is essentially racism, and supporting AA means supporting racism.

It might also be a good, temporary policy to put all black people in centralized camps in order to cut down on violent crime - but that solution is certainly racist, right?

	10-09-2003 19:16									#116
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd If you support AA, I'd have to agree with Oerdin. AA is essentially racism, and supporting AA means supporting racism. It might also be a good, temporary policy to put all black people in centralized camps in order to cut down on violent crime - but that solution is certainly racist, right?

fvck you

	10-09-2003 19:17									#117
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I see that someone doesn't like being called on their emotional support for a program

	10-09-2003 19:19									#118
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd I see that someone doesn't like being called on their emotional support for a program

So since you can't argue legitimately, you have to call all pro-AA people racist, regardless of what their real rationale is behind their position?

pathetic

	10-09-2003 19:21									#119
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No, not at all. AA is a race-based program. This means that you are supporting the idea of giving preferential treatment to people based on their race. Whether you like it or not, this fulfills the definition of "racism".

I'm not interested in your rationale - it isn't relevant right here. The point is, intentionally or not, you ARE supporting racism when you support AA. There's no way around that fact.

	10-09-2003 19:21									#120
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AA's racist but so is society. End racism in society then we won't need AA.