12-09-2003 00:30									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid Spencer: This has bigger implications than other murders. Sweden has been very proud of being so peaceful and secure that even the top politicians don't need bodyguards all the time. Events like this ruin that feeling of safety. Loss of innocence in a way. But sure, under different circumstances the other killings would have been breaking news.

I can understand that even if I disagree with the premise. I think a good analogy is the events of 9/11 in NYC. America is actually no less violent after the event, but there seems to be a strange sense of loss for many people.

	12-09-2003 01:18									#92
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Guess who has been appointed (acting) foreign minister now? Jan O Karlsson, the least diplomatic person in the cabinet. He caused a scandal when he referred to GW Bush as " that bloody Texan". While the statement is technically correct, it is not the smartest thing to say at a dinner with the American ambassador.

Anna Lindh had the carisma and integrity to frankly express her view and still be close friend with her counterparts, while Jan O Karlsson is just an arrogant jackass. But I guess he will not last long on that position, as Göran Persson has plans to completely restructure the cabinet after the Euro referendum.

	12-09-2003 01:32									#93
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Jan O Karlsson has guts

	12-09-2003 01:36									#94
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We wll just have to wait and see what happens...

	12-09-2003 01:50									#95
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Sweden has an average of 10 murders/month.

Actually, they have 900 murders/year. Their murder rate vs. population is twice that of the US, 3 times that of Denmark, 5 times that of Norway and nearly 10 times that of Finland.

Interpol just published this last week. Although not all the statistics are necessarily from the same year (overview is published semi-annually), the above numbers were all from the years 2000, 2001 and 2002. Interpol notes that there are no significant variations from national trends during those years.

So basically Sweden isn't all that peaceful and non-violent, that we would all like to think.

	12-09-2003 02:01									#96
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I think our high number of murders is a cause of our "hospitality". Most of our murders are either muslim women who are beaten to death by their family to punish them for adapting Swedish manners, or members of the Russian or Serb mafia who have internal shoot-outs. We also had a lot of nutcases going berzerk recently, an effect of drastic cuts in mental clinic fundings.

	12-09-2003 02:03									#97
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect Jan O Karlsson has guts

So did Anna Lindh. But she also had charm and wits, which Jan O Karlsson has nothing of.

	12-09-2003 02:06									#98
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Those statistics are rubbish since all unnatural deaths in Sweden count as murders until resolved which gives a misleading number, comparing for example with Norway where a death is not labeled murder until confirmed so. Real number of murders are low.

	12-09-2003 02:08									#99
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Winston: Those statistics are not accurate. The correct figure are along the line of 100-150 per year.

	12-09-2003 02:11									#100
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Accurate or not, they are the numbers Interpol use for comparison between countries.

	12-09-2003 02:13									#101
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In fact, it seems like the latest figures are 219 for 2002, a 31% increase from the year before. A troublesome trend indeed but not at all 900.

	12-09-2003 04:20									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Actually, they have 900 murders/year. Their murder rate vs. population is twice that of the US, 3 times that of Denmark, 5 times that of Norway and nearly 10 times that of Finland.

I suppose Interpol must have forgotten a decimal point in that figure. The actual number of reported crimes involving lethal violence in Sweden in 2002 was 98 (3 of which were committed in previous years). The higher figure mentioned by Kropotkin is misleading since it includes many cases which were initially reported as murders while turning out to have been either duplicate reports, accidents, suicides or from unknown causes, and so on. So the figure of 900 is not only not accurate, but in fact amazingly ridiculous. This also means that there was no increase in lethal violence last year. What was that they say about lies, damned lies and st- again?

For a source to this, see pages 32-33 (Chapter 2) in:
http://www.bra.se/extra/publication...lication.287.=1

---

As for Anna Lindh, I don't have words for what I'm feeling. It's just a shock and a tragedy and I can't express it properly yet.

	12-09-2003 04:30									#103
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One would expect that a Dane would know enough about Sweden to know that 900 murders/year is a ludicrous number. I only lived there for 7 years and I know its bullshit. I was surprised to see it at 100-150.

Last edited by SpencerH on 12-09-2003 at 04:44

	12-09-2003 04:46									#104
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Just referring what I read in the paper last Saturday. The number of 900 murder cases drew only minor objections from two quoted Swedish criminologists. Plus it has to be worth something for Interpol to publish it in their official country comparison.

The fact remains that Sweden has by far the highest murder rate per capita of any Nordic country. The notion that Sweden is an immensely peaceful and harmonic society is false.

	12-09-2003 04:47									#105
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I have just read all articles by SVT and saw some of the videos. The press conference was quite informative, but the English part is fecking bad. They didn't summarise the events properly. Well, that God I'm blingual, because otherwise I would have no clue what's going on. I was abit confused when I read the morning paper today, but now I realised she actually has died. IMO a very sad incident. However I have to point out that you can't blame SÄPO too much for what happen, as it was unexpected. One thing that makes me confused is that how the feck is it possible no one notices someone probably in a hurry leaving NK. At least I do pay attention to such sights, even if a person wouldn't be running. Also the security guards of NK are a big question mark IMO. Where were they?

Hopefully the hitman will be caught soon.

	12-09-2003 05:00									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Just referring what I read in the paper last Saturday. The number of 900 murder cases drew only minor objections from two quoted Swedish criminologists. Plus it has to be worth something for Interpol to publish it in their official country comparison.

It's not worth an iota, see my source above.

quote: The fact remains that Sweden has by far the highest murder rate per capita of any Nordic country.

That might be (although I don't think so), but it doesn't remain from what's been provided in this thread so far.

quote: The notion that Sweden is an immensely peaceful and harmonic society is false.

Yes it is.

	12-09-2003 05:07									#107
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Göran Perssons tal är nog rätt så berörande...

	12-09-2003 05:14									#108
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This seems to be the latest on the hunt for the assassin: (in Swedish only)

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyhet...,359673,00.html

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyhet...,359570,00.html

It says that police are looking for a known violent criminal in the Stockholm area. This after a tip that came in short after the murder took place. Hopefully it's him and hopefully he's in police hands soon. The description they've been working with all along is of a 6 ft tall man, "weathered" face, overweight, with several layers of clothes on. He looked "Swedish" with fair skin, thin face and medium-length dark brown hair. He had on a blue cap, a green camouflage jacket and underneath it a thin gray jacket (munkjacka - what's the right word?).

	12-09-2003 05:20									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Asuka Göran Perssons tal är nog rätt så berörande...

Ja. Hela dagen har varit nedstämd och känts tom och det har varit svårt att inte gråta. I really don't know what else to say. It feels unreal.

	12-09-2003 05:34									#110
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T.S. Sorry for my little outburst in Swedish.

Despite I'm a Finn, I have to say it's a chocking news. I'm thinking back in time and trying to find a similar event in Finnish history, but I think it has to go back to the murder of general governor Bobrikov by Eugene Schaumann in 1904, if speaking of direct political assasinations. More recent cases directed towards authority would include the murder (hmm... or was it "just" manslaughter) of two policemen in Helsinki several years back by the Dane (Danish citizen, so he was sentenced to prison, where he would first be held in Finland and then in Denmark) Steve Christiansen. Hmm. Can't now in the middle of the night remember any other incidents for some reason.

	12-09-2003 06:55									#111
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Sleepy me was supposed to say Steen Christensen. Sorry for my little slip of tongue.

	12-09-2003 07:04									#112
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I think at least Sweden can take comfort from the fact that so few of its politicians and monarchs have been murdered. Karl XII, Gustavus III, Palme, now Lindh. Not a great many in the modern era, especially given the way that Sweden's politicians moved through society.
British politicians of the same status could not move about as freely, neither could the monarch.

Didn't the Danish queen also ride her bicycle to work?

That's what I think puts the 'civil' in civilization- even if you don't agree with constitutional monarchies, or the Scandinavian governments, they are what the French would call 'bien civilises'.

I would hope that her killer is deranged- small comfort, I know, but at least it would be a sign that the political culture in Sweden isn't taking a turn for the worse.

The Swedes (and the Swedish posters here) have my
sympathy.

	12-09-2003 07:06									#113
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom I think at least Sweden can take comfort from the fact that so few of its politicians and monarchs have been murdered...Gustavus III

And at least that one gave us a spiffy opera.

	12-09-2003 07:40									#114
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The AP Article brought a literal tear to my eyes.

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed say a prayer for her kids.

Have your run out of 9/11 threads to troll in?

Please don't use the imperative when saying things like that. Magic words were invented for a reason.

	12-09-2003 12:16									#115
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The police is looking for a street junkie with mental disorders. Another Christer Pettersson...

There has been a discussion about the state of mental healthcare in Sweden recently. With drastic cuts in fundings, numerous nutcases are now out on the streets and we have seen them murdering several people this year. One guy raced his car down the pedestrian street in Stockholm old town, killing two and wounding several more, while another nut went berzerk with an iron rod on seven people, of which one died. And now we have two brutal knife stabbings within 20 hours, one killing a 5 year old girl and another killing Sweden's most admired politician. Lock those freaks up!

	12-09-2003 12:24									#116
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BBC is reporting that the Swedish police have the name of the murderer.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3102354.stm

	12-09-2003 12:26									#117
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quote: The suspect is in his 30s, has long dark hair and is said to be psychologically disturbed.

Does anyone know if the suspect is Swedish or a foreigner?

	12-09-2003 12:32									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin BBC is reporting that the Swedish police have the name of the murderer. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3102354.stm

They have found and interogated him, but concluded he was innocent and let him go.

	12-09-2003 13:21									#119
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Have your run out of 9/11 threads to troll in? Please don't use the imperative when saying things like that. Magic words were invented for a reason.

What are you talking about?

	12-09-2003 13:39									#120
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There's a press conference in 20 minutes time, which might give us some clues. Also streamed live on the SVT website.