12-09-2003 02:56									#1
	Israel decides to expel Arafat Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Arafat to be expelled

Well what do you all think of this turn of events?

	12-09-2003 02:58									#2
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Copy-cat thread alert.

Last edited by Oerdin on 12-09-2003 at 04:47

	12-09-2003 02:58									#3
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I think Israel has ****ed up.

	12-09-2003 02:59									#4
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Hopefully, the Palestinians will resist Israel's usual heavy-handedness. Not with terror attacks against civilians, but resistance against legitimate targets, most particularly the IDF.

	12-09-2003 03:07									#5
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quote: The Israeli cabinet has agreed in principle to expel Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat from the region.

He's not being exiled (yet). He's being sent a message that he's no longer protected. Maybe he'll get the message and play nice, but I doubt he'd do so for long.

	12-09-2003 03:07									#6
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If they actually at some point decide to make this policy more than "a principle", then that is a brilliantly stupid thing to do: so all that happens is that he gets to have his face on TV daily again, now that where ever he gets t go on camera: oh, and since the pals do have knowledge of that incredble thing known as the telephone, he just gets to talk to everyone again: if anything, exiling him makes him more connected and able to inlfuence public opinion than where he is...

Yeah, sounds like the perfect way of making him irrelevant...

	12-09-2003 03:18									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Ccat thread alert.

I didn't see another thread on this. If there is Ming is welcome to close this one.

	12-09-2003 03:19									#8
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I suppose the reason behind it is to hinder his influence over the PA and particulary so his control over most of the security forces. Will probably just give him more attention and support though. "obstacle to peace" or not, he's still the elected leader of the palestinians and has been in this game for to long to not make the best out of the situation.

	12-09-2003 03:57									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln I didn't see another thread on this. If there is Ming is welcome to close this one.

It was mentioned mid-thread somewhere else. AFAIK, this is the only thread solely devoted to that news.

	12-09-2003 04:07									#10
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I think Israel and the US are blowing Arafat's role way out of proportion. Sure he doesn't do anything to stop the Hamas and the IJ. Sure, the whole support for his government comes from the hatred of the Israelis (and as such he and his team must maitain this hatred).

But I don't think this guy decides everything alone. Since Abu Mazen is out, I'd be hardly surprised if there weren't a new row of ambitious ministers or assistants who seek to get Arafat's place once he retires / dies. Arafat as a person is only significant because he has a team with him. Remove Arafat, and once the transition is done, you have much of th same.

The only way to get a cooperative PA government is to make sure the Palestinians will still support it if it cracks down on terrorists. This means allowing the PA to have a significant armed force, this means to subzidizes the PA so that the Pals can thank their government for a "good" standard of living. This means making concessions on the important issues like geographic continuity and access to water. The aim is that the average Palestinian sees his situation getting better, and thank his anti-Islamist government as the reason of it.

In the current state of affairs, the rejection of anti-Israeli hatred, and the active fighting against terorrist groups would be political suicide for any PA government, because it would be deemed a traitor by the population, and any anti-government coup or guerilla would be widely supported.

	12-09-2003 04:28									#11
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What struck me is that Israel has either shown some backbone and is willing to confront the US who supports Arafat, or the US has given Israel the green light to deal with the "obstruction."

Regardless, this decision is long overdue. Bravo!

	12-09-2003 04:32									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Regardless, this decision is long overdue. Bravo!

And if you put your hatred for Arafat aside, what will this decision bring ?

	12-09-2003 04:35									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor ... what will this decision bring ?

What every decision in that conflict brings. More violence.

	12-09-2003 04:41									#14
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It will do nothing to stop terrorism, and will give Arafat a legitimacy he does not deserve.

	12-09-2003 04:43									#15
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Israel says they want to make Arafat irrelevant, and yet they hold a cabinet level meeting that decides sending him into exile counts as vital policy: you know, that does not sound like someone who is irrelevant to me, so either the whole campaing by Israel and the US to make him irrelevant failed utterly, or it was idiotic to begin with. If they exile him, he gets more artime and still remains leader of the pals. If they kill him he becomes the martyr of martyrs, and remains relevant..yup, Israel really knows how to minimize arafat's role, yup, they sure do.

	12-09-2003 04:52									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin . "obstacle to peace" or not, he's still the elected leader of the palestinians

Yeah, sure. An elected leader who has twice cancelled scheduled elections which he looked to be losing. He's a dictator and a terrorist sponsorer who should be shot.

	12-09-2003 05:00									#17
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War for territory

nice video clip

	12-09-2003 05:56									#18
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Good.

	12-09-2003 05:58									#19
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They should send him to an Island in the Pacific where there no radio for him tell his buddie where he is.

	12-09-2003 06:06									#20
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Damn thieving dictator—personal fortune estimated at $300 million IIRC, skimmed from UN funds and private donations to the PA and PLO. Track down every dime and seize it for infrastructure construction in PA territory. Then exile him to some tiny island without a phone line.

Oughta be prosecuted by the Euroweenies in the Hague, except of course they're too busy looking for reasons to harass the US for Iraq.

	12-09-2003 06:20									#21
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Only one problem with this "on desert Island". Israel does not have the means to do so..he would simply end up accross a border, whichever decided to take him.

	12-09-2003 06:40									#22
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big deal... the santa monica city council has agreed to impeach bush... doesn't mean it will happen

	12-09-2003 06:42									#23
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quote: Only one problem with this "on desert Island". Israel does not have the means to do so..he would simply end up accross a border, whichever decided to take him.

Yes, like we never had th means to perform a paratrooper commando mission in Uganda... oh wait!

	12-09-2003 06:47									#24
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Find me a desert island between Israel and Uganda.

The route between Israel and the Indian ocean and Pacific Oceans are a bit more trickey than flying over African countries's who's airforces are, well, crap.

	12-09-2003 06:54									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln What every decision in that conflict brings. More violence.

True dat.

	12-09-2003 07:38									#26
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quote: This means allowing the PA to have a significant armed force, this means to subzidizes the PA so that the Pals can thank their government for a "good" standard of living. This means making concessions on the important issues like geographic continuity and access to water. The aim is that the average Palestinian sees his situation getting better, and thank his anti-Islamist government as the reason of it.

That is so true.
And you know what?
It has been tried between 1993-2000.

And you know what?

The "moderate palestinian government" spit in our face by allowing the fanatics to control the street and create a wave of terror, thus fighting a proxy-war on Israel, while appearing clean to the out-side world.

We won't fall for that crap again. They had their real chance.


For god's sake - do you remember Rabin? You liked him right? You trust his judgement?

Well shortly before being killed, he began telling people close to his cabinet that unless Arafat changed his ways soon, he will be flying back to Tunis on a missile.

And that was Rabin.

For the love of god I don't get why Nethanyahu and Sharon took so much time avoiding getting the old hag out of here.

	12-09-2003 07:44									#27
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Arafat is a terrorist and should be shot... the Palestinians need to find a peaceful leader if they ever want to end the cycle of violence... Israel wont, and shouldn't, stand by while their civilians are killed. I feel pity for the Palestinian innocents who die from IDF actions, but they are not targetted, as the Israeli innocents are. That's the key difference in this conflict and why Israel's cause and actions are justified.

	12-09-2003 07:45									#28
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Sadly, exile will only heighten his exposure and the sense of injustice he tries to create among the Pals. He showed his true colors with Barak. He says he wants to stop the violence, but when offered the best deal the Pals are likely to ever get, he walks away. He does not want peace or a Pal state. He is a man of hatred. Nothing less than the destruction of Israel will satisfy him. There will be no peace until he is dead.

	12-09-2003 08:03									#29
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Sadly, exile will only heighten his exposure and the sense of injustice he tries to create among the Pals. He showed his true colors with Barak. He says he wants to stop the violence, but when offered the best deal the Pals are likely to ever get, he walks away. He does not want peace or a Pal state. He is a man of hatred. Nothing less than the destruction of Israel will satisfy him. There will be no peace until he is dead.

Perhaps the problem was thinking that Camp David was the best deal the Pals could get (which isn;t even true, since Talba was even better).

Again, Arafat's sins is weakness. The question is, what can be done so that the average Palestinian thinks a peace deal is worth it?

To say it is all about him is absurd, it isn't. He is an excuse (speically for himself) for not lookin at the underlying problems.

	12-09-2003 08:11									#30
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GePap, I am not familiar with the Talba deal? What did they pass up?

You may be right that Arafat is an excuse, but I think that he is more of a symbol. For over three decades he has been the face of the Pals to the world. He controls the foces of the PA and directs th matryrs brigade. How much of this is pulled off by his leadership? Probably quite a bit due to his contacts and influence (not to mention personal wealth). He is definately not the whole problem, but he is a symbol of it and a promoter of it. When he passes on these things may have a window in which change is possible. Until then, it is hard to imagine any peace deal being acceptable to the Pals.