22-09-2003 11:49									#91
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Well I have to say that I originally thought Fanes7 couldnt be reloading in the UP thread, but it seems obvious that he is reloading. It is still possible to change the outcome of events with the RNG on but you have to replay several turns and even wait a move. This chap must have an incredible amount of time on his hands to undertake such a tedious task. OTOH he probably has the required time because nobody cares to listen to a word he says in RL, seriously guys I think its time to ignore this fellow. Get this thread locked and let it drift away and try as you might to ignore the future ramblings of this idiot.

Often in life you will find that if all can resist the temptation to bite on a fools hook then the fool will go away!!!

	22-09-2003 12:52									#92
	Inflate your Upload Space

no, you don't have to go several turns back. it's enough if you e.g. change the order of your moves. let's say, you've got an elite, a veteran and a regular.

in the first try, you'll use the elite first and go for the leader. if it doesn't work, try and get a promotion for the veteran, then for the regular, etc.

it's a whole lot of work, but i tried it and it DID work. one round i didn't get any promotion, in another succession of moves i got it in 3 out 4 moves!

i also tried to figure out, what influences the outcome of battles (i don't mean the chances of winning, but attacks where the battle order changes, ceteris paribus).

simple conclusion:
- it is not important from which square you attack for faster-moving units. so E-S or S-E doesn't matter at all. (ofcourse if there's a river between one of the two, it does)

- promotions are dependant on the order

- popping a goody hut before or after a battle changes something too.

- no matter what order you attack when all battles have the same stats, the HP-losses stay. so e.g. if your elite wins a battle but just 1HP left in the end, the veteran would die (because of the 4 HPs he had)

havn't had time to try more... it's just not worth the work to use it in the game.

	22-09-2003 15:03									#93
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Just for the record, I just tried to run this game and at the 3400 or where ever it was the you pop the hut, I got no barbs. It was deserted. This was 1.27F, but I doubt it matters. I had the warriors and worker in the same spots, so it should as been the same?

I always see this :"This has been downloaded 1 time(s)."

so I think nobody download this file but me .

	22-09-2003 15:07									#94
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus Well I have to say that I originally thought Fanes7 couldnt be reloading in the UP thread, but it seems obvious that he is reloading. It is still possible to change the outcome of events with the RNG on but you have to replay several turns and even wait a move. This chap must have an incredible amount of time on his hands to undertake such a tedious task. OTOH he probably has the required time because nobody cares to listen to a word he says in RL, seriously guys I think its time to ignore this fellow. Get this thread locked and let it drift away and try as you might to ignore the future ramblings of this idiot. Often in life you will find that if all can resist the temptation to bite on a fools hook then the fool will go away!!!

Playing game is a relax thing , so don't be so furious .

I played this savefile breezily . If you want talk about it , pls download Master Zen 's savefile , and do step by step as I post , after this , I 'm pleasure to listen .

	22-09-2003 15:15									#95
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So I don't take that the bet with vmxa1 is a very serious thing . We all just play a game , and the game 's rule is decided by some game-programmer .

So you can see in my post , I just play the game very leisured . And you can see in most turns my worker just roam . You can do better than me if you download MZ 's file and play.

	22-09-2003 17:31									#96
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

OK... It's 8:30 on september 22nd and I officially stopped caring...

--Kon--

	22-09-2003 21:55									#97
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by fanes7 I always see this :"This has been downloaded 1 time(s)." so I think nobody download this file but me .

I downloaded the one I put up. This was because I am on my backup machine (1.7GH 512MB) right now and do not have the map. I am on 1.27F so I could not use the 1.14 version. This may account for the hut being deserted. This is vey illustrative as it shows that the choreographing is crucial. That means it can only work with reloading.

	22-09-2003 22:03									#98
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

just a reminder to people:

1) fanes7 has not yet produced a leader in his pics
2) no ground-breaking leader generating strategy has been shown, it's either reloading or luck, neither of which qualify as strategy.
3) no one is buying it anymore

I've had fun. Ciao

	22-09-2003 22:12									#99
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fane7 I don't think there was a bet perse, it was just an opportunity for you to show us how to get leaders guaranted. This was predicated on the presumption that no reloading was being done.

At no time have you said I do not reload. You also do not say that you do reload. This leads me to conclude that you are using reloading. This is not an option for serious players, so we are not taking you seriously.
It does not matter if you are in fact a skilled player, if you are reloading. Yes we all know that one can do as they wish in their own games, but they can not come to public forums and get respect.

As I have said, there is no reason for others to play the game out. They know you have already mapped out the exact moves to get the results. That is why using the load I posted is so telling. It shows that you can not start a game from scratch and get the same results.
The idea of building all warriors and atacking barbs and then an AI will often get you promotions and even leaders. It will not work in all cases, unless you first test all of the permutations. You must first expose the map to see where the AI is and the huts. You then need to trip barbs and win fights. This will not occur in a timely fashion without reloading, flat out.
What this means to me is that you are dishonest, since you refuse to admit this what you are doing and pretend it is being done with no reloads.

	22-09-2003 22:41									#100
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This thread is lame.

But don't be so hard on him vmxa1

	22-09-2003 23:05									#101
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect But don't be so hard on him vmxa1

What is hard about it? He was given many chances to simply say yes or no and has not done so. At some point one must wonder why? I think the evidence is that he is pretending to not reloading, when he does. That is dishonest, is it not? Not the reloading, itself, but doing it and not admitting it.
I think that is why the save A and save B came in. Once he found out the it was possible to look at a savefile and see it had been reloading, a scheme was required to prevent that. The cat was out of the bag, why not fess up at that point. He would have gotten some positive responses, but no, the charade was continued.
If this is harsh, it was self inflicted, by deception.

	23-09-2003 00:01									#102
	Got spare money?

if anything, we actually did give him a chance to prove his stuff. Other forums would have probably blasted him as a loonie first.

	23-09-2003 05:33									#103
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

OK , I see through you , vmxa1 , you just don't dare to try some challenge - a new game idea , that is : the most early attack , the many warriors in early age , and try to peace treat with 2 or 3 AIs in a huge-deity map before 2000BC , and use your gold upgrade early warrior&horseman to maintain strong force , and many new game idea .

I think , if you realy can attempt this , you will find you go up a new level .

The Leader 's appearing is not very hard , not as you say , 1/16 or 1/8 , in a continual battle the unit can easy upgrade , especially the most weakness unit - warrior .

You don't want to try , so I tell you the result :





Before 3150BC , I only have a Veteran , but after 3150BC , I have a Leader , so that is the differ with you and me .

	23-09-2003 05:40									#104
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This is ridiculous.

fanes7, respond to ME. Pick any AU game, and walk me through your play, via posts here, IRC, chat, PMs, email, the damn PHONE, anything.

I will replicate your play, and we'll see how you do.

Deny this challenge, and I will mark you as "ignore", which I have never once done before.

I presume that you will be on this forum for a little while. You have one hour to respond, from 8:40 EDT in New York City.

	23-09-2003 06:12									#105
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Theseus,

I agree with the sentiment, but that's not enough anymore. Now that he knows that he can mask his use of reloads to learn all kinds of things about the map and figure out which path will give him a GL, he can do the same thing with an AU game that he did with the previous game.

My recommendation is that he also be given a strict time limit. He claims to get a GL in the first 18 turns, right? Even in an extremely slow, micromanagement game (which is not required for his war-heavy strategy), it won't take more than 15 minutes to play those 18 turns. It actually shouldn't take more than 10 minutes.

Therefore, my proposal (if this is possible for us to monitor) is to require him to post the precise moves he makes no more than 15 minutes after downloading the file. If he's such a great player, this should be no problem. If he's a reloading cheater (as we all know he is), this will make his job almost impossible.

My question is: can someone at Poly confirm exactly when he completes downloading the file? We can't count on emailing him the file, since he can claim it took a long time to get to him.

Thoughts?

	23-09-2003 07:08									#106
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by fanes7 OK , I see through you , vmxa1 , you just don't dare to try some challenge - a new game idea , that is : the most early attack , the many warriors in early age , and try to peace treat with 2 or 3 AIs in a huge-deity map before 2000BC , and use your gold upgrade early warrior&horseman to maintain strong force , and many new game idea . I think , if you realy can attempt this , you will find you go up a new level . The Leader 's appearing is not very hard , not as you say , 1/16 or 1/8 , in a continual battle the unit can easy upgrade , especially the most weakness unit - warrior . You don't want to try , so I tell you the result : Before 3150BC , I only have a Veteran , but after 3150BC , I have a Leader , so that is the differ with you and me .

Up till now I have felt you deserved to be given every chance to prove your case. I have taken into account your claim to have "poor english". I am not buying the poor english bit. I am wondering if you are just a sophisticated jerk. Puting us on time after time. I wonder this, becasue you still refuse to say you are reloading or to deny it. Why?I am sorry, but I too have run out of patience.

There is no challenge involved. You gave an explicit road map to follow, so what is the challenge for anyone? I simply do as you have outlined and get the same result, if I have the same game and do precisely what you did.
All the crap about beating deity with this scheme is worthless, as it can not work unless you are a chronic reloader. I don't mean just a few reloads here an there, but mnassive. You must play the map to see where everything is and then reload. Now you make a series of moves, that when they fail to get what you need, you go back to the last point things were good. You then make a new pass, until you get the next objective. This is not talent or skill, it is boring and cheating.

The real difference between me and you is I am not insecure and can take my lumps. It does not matter to me if you are anyone is better than me. If you have read some of the post in the curent game, you see as any real player already knows that units lose combat at times and no one is going to be sure to get promotions or leaders in fair fights, even with better units.

	23-09-2003 07:55									#107
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

just notice how the spearman stack in this 3150 BC picture is in a different position than the spearman stack in the 3150 BC picture he posted on page two.

	23-09-2003 09:04									#108
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Thank you all very much , let 's stop argument , I don't want to debate something with you any more .

Just let 's calm .


BTW , I still want a upgrade-patch very much . I 'll appreciate your help if you upload it on the forum .

	23-09-2003 09:08									#109
	Got spare money?

You are here.

You have not responded.

You are gone.

	23-09-2003 09:14									#110
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quote: Originally posted by fanes7 Thank you all very much , let 's stop argument , I don't want to debate something with you any more . Just let 's calm . BTW , I still want a upgrade-patch very much . I 'll appreciate your help if you upload it on the forum .

Sounds good to me.

http://www.civ3.com/support.cfm

Here is where you can find the patch. I have no idea which one you would need as they have different ones for localized versions of the game. I have US and that would not work for yours. Not to mention it is about 10MB.

	23-09-2003 09:24									#111
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Thanks , but the server don't support the port 21

	23-09-2003 09:34									#112
	Increase Your PM Length

This is a new experience for me...

fanes7, you are ignored.

If you have anything meaningful to contirbute, I expect that someone in this forum will tell me via PM.

Until then, have fun with your GLs.

	23-09-2003 09:36									#113
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I am agreeing with Theseus here.
I have never done this but you are now ignored.

	23-09-2003 10:58									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen just notice how the spearman stack in this 3150 BC picture is in a different position than the spearman stack in the 3150 BC picture he posted on page two.

Great catch MZ! You're absolutely right about that. I've refrained from weighing in on this until now, but I think that should absolutely prove that he reloads. Not only the spearman stack, but a warrior are all in different locations.

Case closed for me. I'm not going to follow this anymore either.

	23-09-2003 11:01									#115
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Oh and before I forget, I copied the picture he had before it gets edited. Here is the screenshot MZ was talking about. Notice the location of the spearman and warrior for 3150bc in this shot compared to the one he shows having a GL on.

Attachment: 3150map.jpg
This has been downloaded 131 time(s).

	23-09-2003 11:37									#116
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I did suggest yesterday that you guys all pull the plug on this fool, but netherless the Alexman pic in the other thread is the funniest thing Ive seen for ages

Bye Bye Fanes7

	23-09-2003 15:46									#117
	Increase Your PM Length

Could somebody please ask the higher gods of 'poly to remove fanes7 useless chitchat from my PUP thread (which was interesting up to a certain Chinese invasion...) and put it in this thread, as to consign all this to the asheap of history?

PLEASE...

	25-09-2003 04:29									#118
	Remove this text

Like I said in the UP thread, poor old MS

	25-09-2003 15:52									#119
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Cort Haus,

First of all, I am not THAT old!
Secondly, I don't need your commiseration, I need all this bullshit removed from my thread!
Third, thanks for your virtual handkerchief.

	08-10-2003 13:46									#120
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

totally wierd... but in my last game i had 6 leaders in just 3 turns... 4 of them in the same turn (!!!). playing celts and using lots of elite gallic swordsmen and knights against swordsmen and spearmen (mostly in the open).
although i did win nearly all elite battles, i'm absolutely sure, not beeing anywhere near the 1/12 chance of leader generation (i used my 3rd leader for heroic epic)... at best i won 30 elite battles... too much conincidence imho.

can it be, that under certain circumstances the figure changes (e.g. if using UU or attacking on open ground?)

anyway... it gave me leo's, HE and 3 armies and the pentagon. sistine's and sun tzu's were mine anyway...