07-12-2003 20:58									#391
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: And USC still hasn't beaten Oklahoma. You can't argue that they don't have a chance to beat OU though.

True, the way OU played in the Big 12 championship Baylor might have a chance to beat them.

	07-12-2003 23:22									#392
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Looks like Oklahoma fell to number 3 and Boise State beat Iowa. This means that LSU will very likely overtake USC in at least 6 of the 7 computers and become #2 in the BSC.

At a more positive note, it wills like the Tournament of Roses will get its Big 10-Pac 10 matchup

	08-12-2003 00:41									#393
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Let's get this discussion started properly...

The real national championship game will be USC v. Michigan. I don't recognize the BCS. The AP poll has always been the one that determines the champions.

	08-12-2003 00:46									#394
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true, if USC wins against Michigan, it more than likely will retain its #1 ranking in the AP polls and retain at least a share of the national championship. I bet the BCS folks would love that...

	08-12-2003 01:53									#395
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And once again the AP is biased and easily bought. The computers were put into the BCS to add some realistic level of truth to balance that out.

	08-12-2003 05:02									#396
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quote: The AP poll has always been the one that determines the champions.

Sorry, but the coaches' poll has always been the better of the two. I'll take the opinion of the professionals over some jerkoff sportswriters any day of the week.

	08-12-2003 05:27									#397
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Although Oklahoma losing like they did made the Bowl season a lot more interesting.

	08-12-2003 05:30									#398
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The Coaches poll probably is the better of the two ( and they also say USC is number one) but they are obligated to vote for the BCS champ as the national champ while the writers are not.

	08-12-2003 09:38									#399
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True, the AP wasn't about to loose bribe money and tie their hands to teams actually playing it out on the field.

	08-12-2003 09:53									#400
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quote: The real national championship game will be USC v. Michigan. I don't recognize the BCS. The AP poll has always been the one that determines the champions.

The sportswriters have ALWAYS been better than coaches, some of whom vote for teams they coached for or that they have friends in.

And, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

The BCS may have totally ****ed up its primary purpose: an undisputed national champion! If USC wins the Rose Bowl, we WILL have 2 national champions. What a travesty! Both human polls have USC ranked #1, but they don't get to play in the 'national championship' game. While I like the traditional Rose Bowl, we all know that the team that is ranked #1 by the human polls should play for the title.

Though I bet if USC wins, the Coaches would vote for them #1 if they could.

Here is hoping to a blow up of the BCS by a potential utter failure of the system. It's already failed in not having the #1 team in the AP and Coaches poll in the big game, it'll totally be a failure if there are two national champions.

	08-12-2003 11:05									#401
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It doesn't matter if the BCS is a failure. You're still not going to get the playoff you want so bad. The NCAA understands what makes college football great and won't ruin it by instituting a playoff system. The most we'll see is the addition of an optional extra game after the bowls to clear up any split national title.

quote: The sportswriters have ALWAYS been better than coaches

	08-12-2003 11:19									#402
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quote: You're still not going to get the playoff you want so bad. The NCAA understands what makes college football great and won't ruin it by instituting a playoff system.

Keep parrotting that line... all the way until they initiate a bigger playoff system (because, yes, the National Championship game is a playoff). It will come, the only question is when.

I think within the next ten years, you'll have a basic 4 team playoff where 1 plays 4, 2 plays 3, and the winners play in a National Championship Bowl the next week.

--

And continue to roll your eyes, but the last two times there has been a split national championship the AP has gotten it right both times (1997 - Michigan, 1991 - Miami)... though they probably were wrong in 1990 (picking Colorado over GTech).

	08-12-2003 11:31									#403
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quote: Keep parrotting that line...

I will. Parrotting the NCAA's view on the matter seems like a wise choice to me.

quote: 1997 - Michigan

And you expect people to take you seriously...

	08-12-2003 11:39									#404
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quote: I will. Parrotting the NCAA's view on the matter seems like a wise choice to me.

Yes, because the NCAA back in 1995 foreshadowed the B(C)S . The march of history is going inexorably to a playoff system. The B(C)S was try to keep the bowls and add a bastardized somewhat playoff game. It will keep marching on.

quote: And you expect people to take you seriously...

Yep, because Michigan would have kicked the **** out of Nebraska . They were the best team in the country that year, you homer.

	08-12-2003 11:41									#405
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quote: Yep, because Michigan would have kicked the **** out of Nebraska . They were the best team in the country that year, you homer.

Sure they were. That's why they barely beat a mediocre Washington State team in the Rose Bowl while Nebraska blew out #3 Tennessee in the Orange Bowl...

	08-12-2003 11:47									#406
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quote: Sure they were. That's why they barely beat a mediocre Washington State team in the Rose Bowl while Nebraska blew out #3 Tennessee in the Orange Bowl...

A 10-1 team is mediocre now (they finished 10-2 after losing to Michigan)?

Tennessee was 11-1 before losing to Nebraska

Both teams finished unbeaten, but Michigan had the 36th toughest schedule and Nebraska had the 42nd.

	08-12-2003 11:51									#407
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quote: A 10-1 team is mediocre now (they finished 10-2 after losing to Michigan)?

Yes. The Pac-10 was weak as hell in 1997.

quote: Tennessee was 11-1 before losing to Nebraska

Playing in the SEC, the toughest conference in college football.

quote: Both teams finished unbeaten, but Michigan had the 36th toughest schedule and Nebraska had the 42nd.

Close enough not to matter much. Certainly not as much as the obvious disparity in ability that was revealed in the bowl games.

	08-12-2003 12:02									#408
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quote: Yes. The Pac-10 was weak as hell in 1997.

As opposed to the Big 12, which was so strong Nebraska's strength of schedules was WORSE than Washington State's (WSU had a 31 SOS)!

quote: Playing in the SEC, the toughest conference in college football.

Well you can't really say what Washington State's record would have been in the SEC because they didn't play there!

If you compare a common opponent, UCLA, WSU beat them 37-34 and UT beat them 30-24 (UCLA's only losses that season). That doesn't seem to indicate superiority of either team.

quote: Certainly not as much as the obvious disparity in ability that was revealed in the bowl games.

Then you should have said Ohio State didn't deserve to be national champion last year, because they really didn't beat their opponents by that much. They didn't really blow out people. [/sarcasm]

Teams have different styles of play. Some teams play styles which don't lead to blowouts. The only way to be sure is to play them against each other.

But from what I saw, Michigan was a better team the Nebraska that year. The Wolverine's defense was just incredible.

	08-12-2003 12:10									#409
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quote: As opposed to the Big 12, which was so strong Nebraska's strength of schedules was WORSE than Washington State's (WSU had a 31 SOS)!

Why does that matter? Nebraska won all of their games.

quote: Then you should have said Ohio State didn't deserve to be national champion last year, because they really didn't beat their opponents by that much. They didn't really blow out people. [/sarcasm]

They were the only undefeated team at the end of the season, so it didn't matter how close some of their games were.

quote: Teams have different styles of play. Some teams play styles which don't lead to blowouts.

You think Nebraska's playing style leads to blowouts?

quote: But from what I saw, Michigan was a better team the Nebraska that year. The Wolverine's defense was just incredible.

I doubt you saw that much. You were probably too busy gearing up for NFL games the next day.

BTW, I would've loved to see how Charles Woodson and the rest of the Wolverine's excellent pass defense would have fared against a team that didn't pass the ball. Ahman Green would've ran all over them, just like he did against Tennessee.

	08-12-2003 12:12									#410
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Anyway, as much as I'd love to continue this argument I've had a million times since 1997, work is over. I'm out.

	08-12-2003 20:09									#411
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quote: They were the only undefeated team at the end of the season, so it didn't matter how close some of their games were.

So the closeness and quality of games only matters if there are more than one undefeated teams? What if TCU went undefeated this year (and, of course, they wouldn't play in the national championship game)? Since they would be the only undefeated team, does that mean the quality of their opponents and closeness of games wouldn't matter?

quote: You think Nebraska's playing style leads to blowouts?

Actually, yes. The wishbone offense is a very explosive running offense and puts up plenty of points.

quote: I would've loved to see how Charles Woodson and the rest of the Wolverine's excellent pass defense would have fared against a team that didn't pass the ball.

Shows how much you know. Michigan's D was just as stingy against the run as they were against the pass.

According the College Football Prognosticar:

http://www.thecpp.com/statistics/all_time_def_rush.htm

Michigan had the 17th best rushing defense since 1995. It would have been a GREAT matchup with the 3rd best rushing offense since 1995 in Nebraska. I think Michigan would have won out in the end, because their offense would be able to score against Nebraska and grind it out, like Ohio State did last year. It's interesting, seems to be a Big 10 trait.

	08-12-2003 20:50									#412
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Playing in the SEC, the toughest conference in college football.

Tough for SEC teams, yes. No so tough for other teams.

	08-12-2003 23:16									#413
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BCS will not go away. Do you think there would be this much college football talk if there was a playoff series? I think not.

And there is no way that the bowl games will be dropped. A championship series might be created but the bowl games will still remain.

	08-12-2003 23:35									#414
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For those who would argue that Oklahoma doesn't deserve to be in the national championship game, I would disagree. I think Oklahoma did us all a favor by getting blown out the way they did.

Had Oklahoma won that game, they would still be facing LSU for the national championships since the factors that led to USC getting passed over weren't affected by the Oklahoma/Kansas St. game. There would have been some minimal *****ing since USC (which would have been #2 to Oklahoma in both human polls) would have gotten the shaft still. But nothing like what's happening now.

By losing and dropping out of #1 in the human polls, Oklahoma did us a favor. The BCS as we know it will not be the same after this season for that very reason. The commissioners are already under pressure to open it up to the mid-major conferences. That pressure is going to be intensified since the consensus #1 is now not even playing in the championship game.

Oklahoma deserves the title shot for that very reason: By losing as they did, the system is going to change for the better. And that should be rewarded, don't you think?

	08-12-2003 23:37									#415
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The BBC should be the B-BS, because it is!

Not that I care either way, I always like to see USC get dumped on

	08-12-2003 23:39									#416
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quote: Had Oklahoma won that game, they would still be facing LSU for the national championships since the factors that led to USC getting passed over weren't affected by the Oklahoma/Kansas St. game.

Actually that's not true. OU, by dropping to #3 in the human polls, allowed LSU to get to #2 in both polls which allowed it to get to #2 in the BCS. If LSU stayed at # even in one of the two human polls, they would be going to the Rose Bowl (in all likelyhood) right now.

quote: Oklahoma deserves the title shot for that very reason: By losing as they did, the system is going to change for the better. And that should be rewarded, don't you think?

This may be the DUMBEST thing I've ever read. Since OU being included in the national championship is going to change the BCS, they should be rewarded and be put in the BCS championship game? What? In that case why don't we put Michigan in the national championship game? After all, having a 2 loss team play for the title while two 1 loss teams are left out would shake up the BCS a lot!

	09-12-2003 02:02									#417
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quote: Originally posted by Japher The BBC should be the B-BS, because it is!

I don't have anything against the British Broadcasting Company myself.

I think the BCS is more of a B-BS than the BBC............

	09-12-2003 02:31									#418
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I meant to hit BCS not BBC...

	09-12-2003 03:29									#419
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Did none of you watch the Syracuse-Notre Dame game?

It's this simple: If ND had won the game, USC's Strength of Schedule would have rose and they would be in the championship game.

ACK!

	09-12-2003 03:32									#420
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quote: This may be the DUMBEST thing I've ever read. Since OU being included in the national championship is going to change the BCS, they should be rewarded and be put in the BCS championship game? What? In that case why don't we put Michigan in the national championship game? After all, having a 2 loss team play for the title while two 1 loss teams are left out would shake up the BCS a lot!

Obviously you didn't detect the hint of sarcasm in there. Then again, I may have forgotten to add the since I was typing that one in a hurry.