24-09-2003 23:21									#1
	Meeting with the Tabejin peoples Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Message recieved and sent to ZargonX of the Tabejin (Food Team)

quote: Greetings to the Tabejin people! We do have a person that covers our general contacts. We also have a spiffy title for Togas: Director of Friendly Relations Togas will assign an ambassador and he will contact you shortly. I'm sure our Nations can become fabulous trading partners. I look forward to dinner meetings very much. quote: Greetings, Sunshiners! I am pleased to announce that we, the Tabejin, have made contact with your glowing, happy people. Is there an official contact person on your team we should direct corrospondance to, or just continue discussions with you? Though it is sudden, we would of course like to discuss possible knowledge trades with you, for the benefit of both our peoples; perhaps over dinner... -ZargonX

	24-09-2003 23:46									#2
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Great! First thing we need to do it find out what techs they have and are researching to see what deals we can make.

Have they contacted anyone else?

	24-09-2003 23:57									#3
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I dunno. That will be for Togas and/or the appointed ambassador to find out.

	25-09-2003 09:33									#4
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quote: ZargonX> Togas, when you have a moment, can we talk about the PTWDG2? Togas> sure Togas> you find us??? ZargonX> we sure did! Togas> east coast?? ZargonX> Actually, we're standing on the NW edge of your border Togas> ah. Cool Togas> We'd, of course, like to establish a peace agreement with you and a NAP and such ZargonX> And as I discussed with Bigfree earlier, we're looking to trade Togas> did BF suggest any ideas? ZargonX> well, I proposed a trade of The Wheel and Masonry from us, in exhcnage for Alpha and BW from you ZargonX> however, we are over half-way through BW on our own, so we would perhaps need some monetary compensation for that particular deal ZargonX> or, perhaps, you might have a different trade in mind Togas> let me take a look at what we have... Togas> wheel + masonry = 7 right? Togas> bw + alpha = 8 ZargonX> actually, wheel and masonry are both 4 Togas> but you guys are almost done with BW? ZargonX> so it's an even trade Togas> ah, wheel is 4. Togas> how much gold do you need? ZargonX> we're just over halfway to BW ZargonX> are you currently researching either wheel or masonry? Togas> hmm ... gold probably won't work, we have only 9g. We're researching IW ZargonX> gotcha ZargonX> ok, well, perhaps we could go through with the deal, with an IOU on a future deal Togas> that's ok with us ZargonX> I'll have to discuss it at the banquet hall, of course Togas> I understand. Team Sunshine would be happy to owe you on the next deal, or to structure this one so that it's more to your liking Togas> we aim to make people happy ZargonX> excellent! We aim to make people full! ZargonX> I'll speak with the others, and get back to you shortly Togas> sounds like an excellent pairing Togas> looking forward to it ZargonX> You'll find Masonry and Wheel already offered when you get the turn, as I told BF ZargonX> on the subject of peace, we are most agreeable! ZargonX> Who has time for war when there is so much to be tasted? Togas> As are we ... even though we don't know where you are yet Togas> we don't believe in violence. ZargonX> As for our warrior-scout, we will move him off to the West, away from your lands Togas> Did you come from the North-West? ZargonX> we came over the mighty mountains to the N-NW Togas> ZargonX> it is trecherous land, one we do not care to visit again :P Togas> If you travel to the East, you will find the ruthless MAST team Togas> be warry in their lands ZargonX> I have heard tales of these so-called MASTs... Togas> We hope to keep the peace with them, but they are very insulting fellows. Difficult neighbors. ZargonX> I can imagine... I've heard the stories from the nomads of their treacherous ways... Togas> We wish you the best of fortunes with them. We hope that all of us can live in peace. Togas> let's speak again soon. I'm going to go now and tell my team the good news ZargonX> as will I! ZargonX> and we look forward to basking further in the glow of your fine civilization! ZargonX> and next time we'll bring a cake Togas> Togas> We'll bring the beach blankets, barbeque, and some burgers and have ourself a REALLY good time! ZargonX> now THAT'S a party!

Any thoughts? IMO, we take the offer either way. I don't mind throwing in 10-20g or so to balance it out, if needed. We also need to coordinate research with them.

Need to create a Tabejin thread and draft a NAP

Does anyone want the job of Tabejin Ambassador? If not I will do the role myself.

--Togas

	25-09-2003 12:58									#5
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Me Me Me!!! I LOVE food!

Just kidding. I think we have a few players who would be up for the task. I'm currently busy enough with the ISDG and school.

	26-09-2003 01:26									#6
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I'm up for it, it need be.

	26-09-2003 10:56									#7
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Vander -- Please draft up a NAP agreement. Make it friendly and fun. Post it here and, if it all looks good, I'll have you send it off to Tabejin and you can take your role as official ambassador.

--Togas

	28-09-2003 00:14									#8
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I sent this to ZargonX:

quote: ZargonX, With all of the business with ISDG lately, things have been very quiet and very inactive over in the land of the sun. I'd like to propose this very simple treaty to you and your people. We can make it more involved later, if you want, but I think this should do for now. NAP between Team Sunshine and Team Tabemono: Both parties agree to the following: A state of peace and friendship exists between our teams. There will be no war, conflict, or illegal entry into the cultural borders of either team. We will try to solve our difference (when and if they arise) through a peaceful discussion and pledge to refrain from violence unless there is absolutely no other option. We may tell other parties that we have signed this agreement. This agreement shall last until turn 75. It can be renewed or redone at any time before that. Signed and agreed to by, Togas, Guru and Sunshine Leader. Signed and agreed to by,

	29-09-2003 02:30									#9
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Sorry 'bout that. My cable connection pooped out for a few days so Internet browsing was infrequent at best. The NAP there looks good to me. If I'm still the ambassador, should I use PM or email?

	10-10-2003 02:51									#10
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quote: To Our Radiant Friends, We, the rotund Tabejin, are indeed interested in obtaining the secrets of Iron Working from you. At the moment we have no knowledge with which to share with you, however we do have something else: cold, hard, non-edible cash. Would such an exchange be of interest to you? ZargonX, Master Chef

	10-10-2003 05:55									#11
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I would ask how much cash and what they are researching now and when it will be done.

	10-10-2003 21:06									#12
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Guys,

PLEASE feel free to contact Tabemono (or the other teams) during the next week, as my home computer is dead. I only have the use of my work computer and can't chat or spent a lot of time online. Try to work out these details in chat if possible.

--Togas

	19-10-2003 04:49									#13
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Had a small chat with a Tabemono team member:

quote: Session Start: Sat Oct 18 16:12:02 2003 Session Ident: Kloreep [16:12] BigFree: sure [16:12] BigFree: whats up [16:12] Kloreep: You were putting IW on the table for a while [16:12] BigFree: yes [16:12] BigFree: you are whom now? [16:12] BigFree: Tabemono [16:12] Kloreep: Yeah, Tabemono, sorry [16:12] Kloreep: We're interested, but out of tech to give you [16:13] BigFree: ok, just chekng [16:13] BigFree: ok, then lets cordinate [16:13] BigFree: How soon will you have rocketry [16:13] Kloreep: lol [16:13] BigFree: damn [16:13] Kloreep: Could we buy it from you? [16:13] BigFree: I was counting on that tech form you [16:13] BigFree: oh well [16:14] BigFree: what are you researching now? [16:15] Kloreep: Mysticism [16:15] Kloreep: Do you guys have that yet? [16:16] BigFree: hmm not sure [16:16] BigFree: I have to check [16:16] BigFree: we are doing writing now [16:18] BigFree: we have Myst 5:7(1 [16:18] Kloreep: Two quetions (which I know you won't be able to answer right now): We seem to be a little behind the curve... could we buy IW with gold? If so, how much? [16:18] BigFree: not sure about that [16:18] BigFree: I think tech for tech at this point is the best right now [16:19] BigFree: but we can give good deals [16:19] BigFree: like for Math perhaps [16:19] Kloreep: That's a possibility. [16:19] BigFree: do you have TW? [16:19] Kloreep: Though we'd lose our Myst research. [16:19] BigFree: Hmm [16:20] Kloreep: TW? [16:20] Kloreep: You mean IW? [16:20] BigFree: maybe we can swing a deal for Myst and Writing for Math plus gold [16:20] BigFree: but not much gold [16:20] BigFree: Thw Wheel [16:20] Kloreep: Yeah [16:20] Kloreep: I think we traded it to you guys actually [16:21] BigFree: lol [16:21] BigFree: ok [16:21] BigFree: maybe we can swing a deal for Myst and Writing for Math plus gold [16:21] Kloreep: Hmm, what about Myst and IW for Math and gold? [16:21] BigFree: that couls work as well [16:21] BigFree: I would have to check of course [16:22] Kloreep: Of course [16:22] BigFree: cool [16:22] Kloreep: Like I said, I just want to get talks rolling [16:22] BigFree: I will post this log [16:22] BigFree: 5:7D1 [16:22] Kloreep: Okay, so will I. [16:22] BigFree: Food and Sun go so well together, we should schedule a picnic [16:23] Kloreep: Yep, without the sun there wouldn't be food [16:23] BigFree: lol [16:23] BigFree: so true [16:24] Kloreep: brb [16:24] BigFree: k [16:28] Kloreep: back [16:28] BigFree: k [16:28] Kloreep: I think we're pretty much done anyway [16:28] BigFree: sure [16:28] BigFree: give it a few days in the forums [16:28] BigFree: then i will get back to you [16:28] Kloreep: Okay

	21-10-2003 23:13									#14
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BF -- if they can't do a tech trade (good proposal, btw), then let's go with a sale. We could always use some gold to upgrade warriors to swords 20 turns (or so) from now.

--Togas

	22-10-2003 01:15									#15
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Ok, how much gold do we ask for?

Math=8
IW=6
Myst=4

They have done some research on Myst, so they say, so maybe not too much gold. How about

Myst (4) + IW (6) = Math (8) + 20 gold

	23-10-2003 02:11									#16
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Myst + IW for Math + 20g.

Make it so.

--Togas

	23-10-2003 03:59									#17
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Message to Klorrep of the Tabemono:

quote: We, the Sunshine people, hereby offer the Tabemono people the following trade: We offer Myst + IW for Math + 20 gold. We realize this is a good deal for Tabemono and we are setting our two teams up good continuing relations. May there always be Sun to grow the food.

	27-10-2003 10:18									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

received from Kloreep:

quote: PTWDG II: Tabemono-Sunshine Tech Deal Greetings to our sunny friends. We recently made contact with the MAST team and signed a deal with them for Mysticism. As such, we regretfully must negotiate a different deal without Mysticism. Tabemono proposes we simply trade Math on our side for Iron Working on yours and add two more tech point IOUs on your side. Also, what are you planning on researching after Writing? We're interested in the The Republic. If that's your goal, perhaps we can work out a cooperation deal, one team researching CoL and the other Philosophy. -Kloreep, Tabejin

Not a big loss. Unless anyone has any major objections I'll tell him that it's fine.

--Togas

	27-10-2003 11:40									#19
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So, we get Math (8) and they get IW (6) and we owe them 2 tech points...

We still owe them 1 tech point from the last deal, but I won't bring that up.

We could go for CoL and let them do Philosophy, to make up the difference, then they would owe us one.

	30-10-2003 00:38									#20
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Darn. I assume they traded some tech to MAST. It would have been nice to do the Myst deal ourselves and keep MAST without a tech. Oh well, get what we can.

	06-11-2003 20:59									#21
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We could send them HbR (5) for the tech points we owe them and then they will owe us a couple.

	07-11-2003 08:58									#22
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Chat with Tabemono today ... Kloreep, Sharpe, and another fellow.

They met LL and decided to sell them Math for IW. They seemed to forget that we had a trade already arranged. They wanted to trade us Math for Writing.

I reminded them about our previous deal, but they made an excuse and sort of waited around for me to do something.

Because I was in an unsunny mood about the whole affair and really didn't feel like saying "it's ok that you traded with LL and not us", I told them that I'd tell our team about it and give them time to think about what they want to do.

We need to trade with them at some point, unless we want to get Math from LL and cheese-off Tabemono in the future. It's not our style to be vindictive or angry or exclusionary, however, I am very hurt that they'd try to ignore one trade deal to make another.

I guess either way they'd trade Math to one team for IW and to another team for Writing .... but I'd much rather it be us that gets more out of the deal, know what I mean?

--Togas

	07-11-2003 09:36									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Math and Writing are both 8 so that will make an even deal. Tell them the team is disappointed that they backed out of an arranged deal. Ask if they have any cash to buy HbR with. LL is getting techs off our IW, we might as well get something out of their HbR.

	07-11-2003 13:43									#24
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Being Sunny only works when others don't try to rain on your parade! Screw them. Tell them we are feeling rather "cloudy" because of this and await what their response will be to make it up to us.

Simply put, they broke a prearranged deal with us. The broke a contract. They broke a tech treaty. We can also let them know that we can tell the other teams that they like to rain on other peoples parties and that they bring spoiled food to the parties as well!

	07-11-2003 22:24									#25
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Team Sunshine isn't going to be a "hater." I'm not going to go complaining to any of the other teams about Tabemono, it'll just stir up bad feelings, and we're not the sort of team that does that.

We get back at them by being passive-agressive.

They need Writing before they can research anythigng else.

We have writing.

They need to talk to us. Period.

Let me handle it. I'll be subtly passive and depressed about them letting us down and raining on our picnic. Instead of getting IW from us, they got it from LL, who got it from us, in a selfish move to get 2 techs (IW and Writing) for Math.

Logically, it makes sense to do what they did, but they shouldn't have done so after previously arranging the trade with us.

In the future, we should not make any future trade deals with them, they're not reliable. But we also need to make sure that we have a sunny attitude despite these setbacks. Our long term diplomacy and success depends on us staying the friendliest team around.

--Togas

	08-11-2003 00:31									#26
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quote: Tabemono, Team Sunshine is very saddened that our tech trade deal was spoiled by team Latin Lover, and that Tabemono let us down by not trading with us. Some of my team members have said some cloudy things with regards to Team Tabemono due to this, but I do not want to see our good friendship get spoiled by this unfortunate situation. I think it was a mistake, but one that we can fix if you're willing. What do you say? Here's something we came up with: We give Writing. You give Math Then once you aquire currency: We give Horseback Riding + Philosophy + gold. You give Currency. We're thinking something like 40g. We don't have a lot of gold because we've been researching at max, but we should have that much by the time you finish currency. Just need to kill some barbs. If you agreed, we would need your word that you will follow through and not change the deal later on. We would also require that even if you got the techs through goodie hut or trade/sale/gift or whatever, you would still be required to give us Currency when aquired. We also require a no-trade agreement now that team LL has whored our IW out to everyone else We don't want to be mean or angry or bitter, but we are sad and feel that we've been taken advantage of, mostly by Team LL for selling IW to you and it seems that MAST is even buying it from them. We just wish Tabemono had stood by their original offer to us of Math for IW instead of giving it to LL. Anyhow, it has been a very cloudy day here in Sunshinia... --Togas

	08-11-2003 01:49									#27
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Nicely worded. You sounded genuinely sad and not very angry at all!

	11-11-2003 21:09									#28
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Did we ever get a reply from Tab on this deal? I am holding the 1650 BC turn. They offered Math unaccepted. We need to know if they agreed to our terms or not so we can proceed with the deal.

	11-11-2003 23:21									#29
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quote: Kloreep, We have not heard back from anyone from your team about our most recent PM regarding tech trades. Please respond to us. If you agree with our last offer, we need you to directly say so. We can't go forward with any trades until we get things officially agreed to, given the confusion and hurt feeling involved with the last trade. --Togas

	14-11-2003 08:15									#30
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Chat with Tabemono: (Sharpe, Kloreep, Nimitz)

They propose:
We give Writing, they give Math
We give Mapmaking + Philo. they give Currency + 20g.

This trade would take care of our IOU to them.

They agree in chat to a No-Trade for techs they get from us. We agree not to trade their techs.

They agree to go forward with the trade even if they aquire (or we aquire) the techs from another source.

I told them that I think it's fair and that I'd reccomend it to my team. I think we should agree to it. We should be easy going guys, and this looks very reasonable to me.

--Togas