02-10-2003 09:00									#241
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I don't believe you, you Coca-Cola heathen.

	02-10-2003 09:01									#242
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Seeing it's the majority that drinks Coke, that means you're the heathen .

	02-10-2003 09:02									#243
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Seeing it's the majority that drinks Coke, that means you're the heathen .

Nope -- Pepsi doers are the Moral Minority.

	02-10-2003 09:08									#244
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

And minority you shall stay .

	02-10-2003 09:09									#245
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And minority you shall stay .

	02-10-2003 13:18									#246
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ned MtG, again, are you in favor of simply erasing the borders? Why even have borders? What are their purpose?

We'll still need an arbitrary line in the dust to see whose set of laws we're ignoring.

	02-10-2003 13:30									#247
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Theben Personally I say keep the illegals and for every one we keep we deport some lazy white trash to Mexico or Guatemala for a "wake up call".

I've been arguing for this program for years, but the cowards in Washington won't even take my calls!

	02-10-2003 14:11									#248
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'm for a complete revamping of the immigration system, at least as it impacts Mexico.

1) A national ID system that identifies by fingerprint every single American citizen.

2) Fingerprint checks at the borders for everyone entering the country, with a record kept permanently of the action.

3) Instead of the I9 form, all employees in the U.S. will now have their fingerprints run through the computer by a U.S. government employee to check their status. Illegals will be deported.

4) Anyone (read: employers)who attempts to circumvent these rules will be subject to large fines and prison terms. The fines will be used partially to make payoffs to whistle blowers.

5) A new guest worker program will be put into place which will provide safe and legal opportunities for itinerent workers to work in U.S. argiculture and other fields that face regular shortages of workers. This program will be reviewed and adjusted regularly so that it remains current and useful, rather than holding the line on the past as economic realities change.

6) The U.S. will make a serious effort to drop its agricultural subsidies as much as possible. This will improve the ability for Mexican agriculture to compete, and may seriously reduce the need for Mexicans to migrate to the U.S. for agricultural work by attacking the problem from both ends. The excess jobs in the U.S. will be reduced while the excess of workers in Mexico will also be reduced.

A final note. The cries of racism are more than a little overwrought. At best for those who make them, they are simply mistaking cultural chauvinism for racism, even though most Mexicans and Americans are cut roughly from the same racial stock. I'll be the first to admit to some cultural bigotry, but on this issue this really doesn't come into play for me. I like Mexicans and what I've seen of their culture generally, which is more than I can say for a lot of peoples and cultures around the world. My interest in this issue is that we create a better situation for all those involved than what we have today, and that we get a handle on our own country by figuring out who's in and who isn't. It seems to be critical to make that definition for scores of reasons, including and especially for our political and legal systems to function properly.

	02-10-2003 21:54									#249
	Remove this text

Sikander, As I said, I agree with killing the subsidies - but I would consider something to protect the farmer against disasters.

I think a national ID card would be just fine. However, I really believe that we need to legalized the illegal and give them temporary work status with the opportunity to become citizens by applying for it like anyone else. I would not penalize employers or illegals for working. That is crazy. Working is good for everyone. Besides, if they cannot work, it only forces them on welfare or into criminal activity. I would penalize them if they do not pay taxes once they have an opportunity to get a taxpayer ID number and do not do so.

	02-10-2003 21:56									#250
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Ramo, I still think you have the subsidy issue backwards. Even so, I am entirely in favor of ending subsidies.

	02-10-2003 21:57									#251
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Care to qualify your assertion?

	02-10-2003 21:59									#252
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: My interest in this issue is that we create a better situation for all those involved than what we have today, and that we get a handle on our own country by figuring out who's in and who isn't.

How exactly is the situation better if we deprive millions of their livelyhoods and tank our economy?

	02-10-2003 22:04									#253
	Tired of ads?

quote: 1) A national ID system that identifies by fingerprint every single American citizen.

Yeah, the drivers liscense use to do that before Davis F'd that up...

quote: 2) Fingerprint checks at the borders for everyone entering the country, with a record kept permanently of the action.

The problem isn't with those who come in through the boarder checks, it's the ones who come through the hole in the fence.

quote: 3) Instead of the I9 form, all employees in the U.S. will now have their fingerprints run through the computer by a U.S. government employee to check their status. Illegals will be deported.

Teachers have to undergo this type of rigorous screening process, and it takes time... Things that take time generally don't work are ignored, that is why there are so many illegals in our state...time.

quote: 4) Anyone (read: employers)who attempts to circumvent these rules will be subject to large fines and prison terms. The fines will be used partially to make payoffs to whistle blowers.

Nice.

quote: 5) A new guest worker program will be put into place which will provide safe and legal opportunities for itinerent workers to work in U.S. argiculture and other fields that face regular shortages of workers. This program will be reviewed and adjusted regularly so that it remains current and useful, rather than holding the line on the past as economic realities change.

There is this type of program. Yet, adjusting as often as is needed may prove to be costly.

quote: 6) The U.S. will make a serious effort to drop its agricultural subsidies as much as possible. This will improve the ability for Mexican agriculture to compete, and may seriously reduce the need for Mexicans to migrate to the U.S. for agricultural work by attacking the problem from both ends. The excess jobs in the U.S. will be reduced while the excess of workers in Mexico will also be reduced.

I've already stated my opinion about subsidies on other threads. Yet, the number of jobs in Mexico is increasing impart by manufacturing labor over Ag labor...

Some good ideas, but I don't think any of them will work. The best is the one on the "guest" worker program... Employeers CAN sponser immigrants for citizenship already, perhaps there should be some incentive for doing so.

I love the Mexican culture, I have never had a problem with a Mexican and enjoy going to Mexico for my holidays... I am all for making it easier for them to become citizens and enjoy having them in my state to work... The thing I have a problem with is they do not wish to live in this state. They want to take the money and run, take the health care and run... We are a state of convenience, opened 24 hours a day, and I hate being taken advantage of...