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cinch
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Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Jul 2002
time: 22:31
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The NEP ( ), the Charter of Rights & Freedoms ( ), the Omnibus Bill ( ), Bilingualism ( ), fighting (or was it enflaming?) the fire of Quebec seperatism (  ), being a Canadian leader who was actually interesting ( )...
And the rest.
How would you rate ol' PET, as a Prime Minister, taking into account both the results of his actions and historical/cultural relevance?
And hey, whether you like him or not, you have to at least admit that his episode of Life & Times is a great watch.
And his son is a fine photojournalist, by my estimation... but that's beside the point.
Anyway... whaddayathinkotrudeauasawhole?
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:31
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quote:
Originally posted by cinch
Well, sure, it's easy to hate or love someone based solely on one issue...
The whole Trudeau/Levesque was not his finest hour, but I think the Charter was still a positive step in the history of this country.
He was arrogant, to be sure, but I think a little arrogance can be beneficial at times. He made a boatload of mistakes, but I think he also did a lot of good, and he certainly made things a lot more interesting for a while.
...
Speaking of Levesque: I loved how we always smoking at his news conferences and such. It just came off as so... supervillainesque. |
You already mentioned the NEP, no need for that.
There is also him giving the finger to Western Canada.
And, btw, when one man's arrogance throws fuel on a fire that could have torn this country apart, I think that is a pretty good issue to judge him as a zero for as a national leader.
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cinch
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Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Jul 2002
time: 22:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Alberta's so conservative because Alberta is rich. If you had money you wouldn't want some Frenchie in Ottawa spending it on building a roof for a stadium in Montreal that collapses constantly, or funding the welfare checks of 25% of the population of Newfoundland which are unemployed but refuse to do anything about it.  |
Whoa, whoa, whoa... I'm no fan of the NEP, either, but let's not totally dismiss transfer payments off hand, here. There will come a time when the tables will be turned, and Alberta will need to be propped up by some other region, and then we'll all be glad that the system is the way it is.
The NEP went overboard, but I still think there's nothing wrong with a little opportunity equalisation.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
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quote:
Originally posted by cinch
Whoa, whoa, whoa... I'm no fan of the NEP, either, but let's not totally dismiss transfer payments off hand, here. There will come a time when the tables will be turned, and Alberta will need to be propped up by some other region, and then we'll all be glad that the system is the way it is.
The NEP went overboard, but I still think there's nothing wrong with a little opportunity equalisation. |
Give me a break...Alberta and Ontario are the only two "have" provinces in Canada, and it's been that way for decades. Everyone leaches off those two provinces, and it ain't helping the other ones get anywhere.
Transfer payments are bullshit and I'd not shed a tear if they vanished.
Why should well-off regions continue to waste money in useless regions like Newfoundland? I'd be happy to help fund those people to relocate, I just hate seeing money go down that black hole because some *******s don't wanna move to where the jobs are.
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cinch
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Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Jul 2002
time: 22:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Give me a break...Alberta and Ontario are the only two "have" provinces in Canada, and it's been that way for decades. Everyone leaches off those two provinces, and it ain't helping the other ones get anywhere.
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And decades = forever? As for the effect: it's keeping people off the streets; keeping food on their tables.
quote:
Transfer payments are bullshit and I'd not shed a tear if they vanished. |
Until the last drop of oil is vanquished.
quote:
Why should well-off regions continue to waste money in useless regions like Newfoundland? I'd be happy to help fund those people to relocate, I just hate seeing money go down that black hole because some *******s don't wanna move to where the jobs are. |
So you favour a total evacuation of the Maritimes? PLENTY of Easterners come where the jobs are; ALL of them can't.
The fact is: things change, circumstances are altered. Alberta could find itself near the bottom eventually, and then we'll be crying for help. Best to help those in need of it now, so that when the tables are turned, they might just do the same for us.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Alberta's so conservative because Alberta is rich. If you had money you wouldn't want some Frenchie in Ottawa spending it on building a roof for a stadium in Montreal that collapses constantly, or funding the welfare checks of 25% of the population of Newfoundland which are unemployed but refuse to do anything about it. |
Stan Rogers note about his 1981 song Free in the Harbour: "Someone recently told me there are more Newfoundlanders in Edmonton than there are in St. John's. I met one of them, a fellow from Hermitage Bay, who was working on an oil rig somewhere in Alberta. Blackfish are small whales."
Part of the song goes:
It's at Portage and Main You'll see them again
On their way to the hills of Alberta.
With lop-side grins, they waggle their chins
and they brag of the wage they'll be earning.
Then it's quick, pull the string boys, and get the loot out,
Haul it away! Haul it away!
But just two years ago you could hear the same shout
Where the whales make free in the harbour.
Well, it's living they've found, deep in the ground,
And if there's doubts, it's best they ignore them.
Nor think on the bones, the crosses and stones
Of their fathers that came there before them.
In the taverns of Edmonton, fishermen shout
Haul it away! Haul it away!
They left three hundred years buried up the Bay
Where the whales make free in the harbour.
Free in the harbour; the blackfish are sporting again
Free in the harbour; untroubled by comings and goings of men
Who once did persue them as oil from the sea,
Hauling away! Hauling away!
Now they're Calgary roughnecks from Hermitage Bay,
Where the whales make free in the harbour.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:31
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quote:
Originally posted by cinch
And decades = forever? As for the effect: it's keeping people off the streets; keeping food on their tables. |
It's keeping people in regions that don't have a job market to support them, is what it's doing.
quote:
Until the last drop of oil is vanquished. |
Look at the rate of diversification of the Alberta economy. 30% of the GDP was oil 10 years ago, it's down to 20% now. You should know that Ralphie's on a huge diversification kick.
quote:
So you favour a total evacuation of the Maritimes? PLENTY of Easterners come where the jobs are; ALL of them can't. |
If all of them were unemployed, I'd sure hope they figure out it'd be best to move somewhere.
The people with jobs don't need to move, the ones that have been unemployed for four years and living off of money from welfare ought to look into moving, don't you think?
quote:
The fact is: things change, circumstances are altered. Alberta could find itself near the bottom eventually, and then we'll be crying for help. Best to help those in need of it now, so that when the tables are turned, they might just do the same for us. |
And who would help Alberta? Nova Scotia? PEI? Newfoundland? 
The fact is, it's highly unlikely Alberta will be classified as a "have not" province, even if the oil dried up right now. The gap between Alberta and all of the other provinces is simply enormous.
If Alberta implemented a provincial sales tax like all of the other provinces, or had provincial income tax near the levels of the other provinces, that bar would even be quite a bit longer for Alberta.
Last edited by Asher on 29-09-2003 at 08:36
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cinch
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Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Jul 2002
time: 22:31
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quote:
It's keeping people in regions that don't have a job market to support them, is what it's doing. |
Many Easterners come out West or to Ontario or B.C. for work. As I said, just not ALL of them.
quote:
Look at the rate of diversification of the Alberta economy. 30% of the GDP was oil 10 years ago, it's down to 20% now. You should know that Ralphie's on a huge diversification kick. |
Oh, yes, I know, you've lectured me on this before, but I maintain that no matter how ironclad Klein's schemes are, he can't insure perpetual Albertan dominance.
quote:
The people with jobs don't need to move, the ones that have been unemployed for four years and living off of money from welfare ought to look into moving, don't you think? |
Generalizatios, Ho!
1. Again, many Maritimers do move to find work.
2. Equalization payments don't just support lazy slobs; even the people who do have work aren't raking in the big bucks, for the simple reason that the anchor industry isn't quite as lucrative as Alberta's.
quote:
And who would help Alberta? Nova Scotia? PEI? Newfoundland? |
Yes.
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28-09-2003 09:25
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