30-09-2003 23:53									#121
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Why do you mention happiness in particular?

Seriously, to be precise, it's not happiness, but generally feeling good. Feeling good isn't something that has to be described. But if you want to get into the biochemistry of it, I can.

	30-09-2003 23:55									#122
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I betcha I can define freedom (in fundamental terms) much more easily than you can define what it is to feel good. Freedom = lack of constraint. Your turn, bloody utilitarian.

	01-10-2003 00:01									#123
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feeling good= a sort of pulse or a series of pulses in our nervous system.

	01-10-2003 00:04									#124
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What sort of pulse/series of pulses in our nervous system? (Give up, you won't be able to explain it in terms simpler than how I've explained freedom )

	01-10-2003 00:13									#125
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The one that hits the pleasure center in the brain, of course.

	01-10-2003 00:14									#126
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What's the pleasure center of the brain, exactly? What are the parameters of the electrical pulses?

	01-10-2003 00:16									#127
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The point is, this is already sounding more complex than "lack of constraint," and by your critera your moral system therefore makes less sense than mine.

	01-10-2003 00:17									#128
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smartass. You know it's much more simple. ( seriously)

	01-10-2003 00:18									#129
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But it isn't. "Lack of constraint is good" IMO is a pretty damn elegant basis for a moral system.

	01-10-2003 00:23									#130
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Yours demands conceptual thinking. Mine predates words themselves. You don't have to know about the existance of neurochemical reactions to understand what does it mean to feel good.

	01-10-2003 00:26									#131
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It's a good thing I'm capable of conceptual thinking then.

Morality is an abstract concept. What's the problem if it should be based on another abstract concept?

	01-10-2003 00:29									#132
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Because something down the line shouldn't be based on an abstract concept.

	01-10-2003 00:29									#133
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Why?

	01-10-2003 00:37									#134
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....
because.

Seriously, it's quite obvious. Your description of any abstract concept should in the end be based on some un-abstract thing. Otherwise, I just might start a new religion based on the ultimate virtue of uhjgf

	01-10-2003 00:40									#135
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It isn't obvious. And uhjgf isn't an abstract concept, it's an undefined concept.

	01-10-2003 00:42									#136
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You can define freedom in terms of non-abstract concepts. It's only that such a definition is unnecessarily complex. We have brains for a reason.

	01-10-2003 00:42									#137
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well of course it is defined! It's the feeling that we get when we gnauraize.... WAIT! this is a good thread. I don't want it to be spoiled.

	01-10-2003 00:45									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo You can define freedom in terms of non-abstract concepts. It's only that such a definition is unnecessarily complex. We have brains for a reason.

You see? that's why I am not sure your axiom is right.

	01-10-2003 00:51									#139
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I don't see. I can say freedom is where brains don't send electrical pulses through their bodies to get their ligaments to move in such a way that impedes the movements caused by the electrical pulses sent by the brains of others, etc., etc. But the idea is simpler when you abstract it. The same with happiness - it's simpler to deal with if you abstract the idea.

	01-10-2003 00:57									#140
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But that's the point. you can explain that good feeling without going into brain function. it's that basic.

	01-10-2003 02:56									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Theben AFAIK America is the only country (maybe Canada as well) where newly arrived immgrants can become nationalized very quickly.

I believe it takes 5 to 7 years to become eligible for naturalization in the US. Not all types of visas allow one to proceed to the naturalization process. I don't think that someone holding a student visa can be naturalized, he'd have to get another type of visa first.

	01-10-2003 03:37									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Why do you mention happiness in particular? Seriously, to be precise, it's not happiness, but generally feeling good. Feeling good isn't something that has to be described. But if you want to get into the biochemistry of it, I can.

pretty shallow morality if ur ultimate goal is to force the production of certain chemicals in your brain. and according to you, only one kind of chemical?

which chemical is it btw?