29-09-2003 19:54									#1
	Man cuts his teenage daughter's throat for no good reason Increase Your PM Length

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3149030.stm

quote: A Kurdish Muslim who cut his daughter's throat because she was having a relationship with a Christian has been jailed for life. The Old Bailey heard Abdalla Yones, 48, murdered 16-year-old Heshu at their home, in Acton, west London, because he feared she was becoming westernised. In a letter to her parents, apparently showing she planned to run away, Heshu wrote: "Bye Dad, sorry I was so much trouble. "Me and you will probably never understand each other, but I'm sorry I wasn't what you wanted, but there's some things you can't change. "Hey, for an older man you have a good strong punch and kick. "I hope you enjoyed testing your strength on me, it was fun being on the receiving end. Well done."

	29-09-2003 19:55									#2
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Not that there ever would be a good reason to do it of course....

	29-09-2003 19:57									#4
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What needs to be said. Next to a perfect example of why the death penalty should be reinstated in Britain.

	29-09-2003 19:58									#5
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That was a good note she wrote to him, though, justifiably spiteful and nasty.
Unfortunately it might have been a little too effective at pissing him off.

	29-09-2003 19:59									#6
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	29-09-2003 19:59									#7
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"What needs to be said. Next to a perfect example of why the death penalty should be reinstated in Britain."

Would that have prevented the crime? No.
Would killing him bring her back? No.
Is it cheaper to execute someone than keep them in prison for life? No.
Is he going to be killing anyone else? No.

What's the benefit of executing him? None.

	29-09-2003 20:04									#8
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quote: Is it cheaper to execute someone than keep them in prison for life? No.

erm?

	29-09-2003 20:06									#9
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That's based on what I've read about the situation in the US. The appeals process and time spent on death row etc. costs more than just keeping them in high security for life and I don't think it'd be much different here. The outcry if you made a mistake would be too high.

Also in this case, the guy wants to be executed. Keeping him alive is a worse punishment because he has to live with what he's done.

	29-09-2003 20:08									#10
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH What needs to be said. Next to a perfect example of why the death penalty should be reinstated in Britain.

This guy who murdered his daughter is very much deranged and unstable -- but I still oppose the death penalty.

	29-09-2003 20:09									#11
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH "What needs to be said. Next to a perfect example of why the death penalty should be reinstated in Britain." Would that have prevented the crime? No. Would killing him bring her back? No. Is it cheaper to execute someone than keep them in prison for life? No. Is he going to be killing anyone else? No. What's the benefit of executing him? None.

"Would that have prevented the crime?"

Possibly not.

"Would killing him bring her back? No."

"Is it cheaper to execute someone than keep them in prison for life?"

It depends on how much money you waste on appeals.

"Is he going to be killing anyone else? No."

That depends on whether he gets out. Is life in Britain 'life'. I'm not sure, but somehow I doubt it.

	29-09-2003 20:10									#12
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"time spent on deathrow" is more expensive that max security how?

But honestly, I don't think I believe in the DP myself, either.

	29-09-2003 20:11									#13
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"That depends on whether he gets out. Is life in Britain 'life'. I'm not sure, but somehow I doubt it."

The honest answer is it depends. Life can certainly mean life.

	29-09-2003 20:14									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel "time spent on deathrow" is more expensive that max security how? But honestly, I don't think I believe in the DP myself, either.

I think it's the combination of long periods on death row combined with the appeals processes (which are expensive) that makes it cost more.

	29-09-2003 20:16									#15
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There could be something behind the appeals process, though I still think that caring for a person for the rest of his life costs more.

	29-09-2003 20:18									#16
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I was surprised by that information too.

	29-09-2003 20:20									#17
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Back on topic....
I think the problem is that european governments don't encourage youth to do what this father claimed her daughter was doing. That way, many teenagers can be intimidated into sticking in.

	29-09-2003 20:22									#18
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One shouldn't decide whether or not to support the death penalty based on the monetary costs involved with capital punishment or with a lifetime of imprisonment. It is wrong to place a monetary value on someone's life (except as a reward in the case of detaining a rogue criminal).

	29-09-2003 20:23									#19
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The appeals process is very expensive. In the US we've decided to deal with the problem by limiting prisoners appeals. Of course, we're probably killing more innocent people now too.

	29-09-2003 20:24									#20
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I guess the whole "thou shalt not kill" thing from my CofE primary school thing has stuck with me.

	29-09-2003 20:28									#21
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Solution: Death penalty by natural cause

	29-09-2003 20:28									#22
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Me too. Although I have to confess to coveting my neighbour's ox a couple of time.

	29-09-2003 20:30									#23
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My neighbour's ox has the hottest ass.

	29-09-2003 20:33									#24
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I hope you haven't been cheating on the sheep. That'd cover the adultery base too.

	29-09-2003 20:46									#25
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We had a similar murder here in Umea some years ago. A guy killed his sister because she had adopted the Swedish way of life, which of course was very shameful for the entire family

I don't mind increased immigration, but scum who behave like this should be put in a box and sent as volunteers to the uranium mines in Xinjian, China.

	29-09-2003 20:57									#26
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It happens here, as well.

	29-09-2003 21:00									#27
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Tragic. If the tone of her farewell letter is any indication, he must have made her life a living hell before he finally killed her. Too bad she didn't manage to make it.

What sickens me is that people were actually covering up for this guy.

One wonders why he came to Britain in the first place if he didn't want his family to be 'westernized', surely an Arab country would have been a better choice for him.

Lesson 1: if you don't want your family to become westernized, it's usually a bad idea to go and live in a Western country. They're bound to pick up some bad habits from the locals.

"Scotland Yard believe there were 12 'honour killings' in the UK last year and said they were not restricted to Muslims, but also occurred in Sikh and Christian families"

12 of these killings in the UK last year. That's bad. I never realised before I read that article that Christians also do it. That was a shock.

Are these honour killings solely against females? I'm just wondering because I've never heard of Muslim men being murdered by their families for marrying Christian women.

	29-09-2003 21:04									#28
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i think it is only against females, because heaven forbid, they're just so weak-willed and have a penchant for sinning, as well as leading males astray.

	29-09-2003 21:09									#29
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By far and large it's against females. Oh, and gay men as well.

	29-09-2003 21:11									#30
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH That's based on what I've read about the situation in the US. The appeals process and time spent on death row etc. costs more than just keeping them in high security for life and I don't think it'd be much different here. The outcry if you made a mistake would be too high.

It depends on where in the US - in Calfornia, where they're serious about sentencing people to death but have no intention of actually executing anyone, you also get the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which has never seen or heard of a frivolous reason for filing a "gangplank" appeal and getting a stay of execution. Even if it's the same reason and virtually the same filing that you were rejected on ten years ago.

In other states and Federal judicial appellate circuits, the cost figures are different because you have real screening of appeals for merit, and faster docketing of capital appeals.

It's also a bit of a frivolous argument, because it's predicated on the idea that if you sentence someone to life without parole, they're not worth appeal time and costs whether they're guilty or not. How is it "moral" to worry about the innocence or guilt of a capital defendant, while not concerning yourself equally with the guilt or innocence of a non-capital defendant nevertheless sentenced to die behind bars, just a bit more slowly?

quote: Also in this case, the guy wants to be executed. Keeping him alive is a worse punishment because he has to live with what he's done.

Because he killed her for her "sin" against Allah, he probably expects to be in paradise. And I doubt "living with what he's done" is too hurtful, since it's typical of that mentality (and she was only a daughter ) to be proud of having prevented an embarassment and moral stain on the family.